Getting to know Paradox

[Akrotatos]

So, I frequent the Rome 2 forums and everywhere is Paradox this and Paradox that etc so I think I want to try these games. Which one should I choose? I prefer ancient and medieval warfare but I think Paradox has more of 17-18th century warfare?

[Border Patrol]

They're not really 'warfare' really. Except for Hearts of Iron. The combat itself in all instances though is abstracted and out of your reach. I would give the EU4 demo a try on steam. You might like it

[Akrotatos]

I got that from what I have seen, I should have meant "era" not warfare. Is it steam only?

[Border Patrol]

Nope

[Akrotatos]

Well I read some more and it seems Crusader Kings II will be more of my cup of tea.. EU4 will be next. I hope they will make me forget TW cause I think I have given up on the series.

[War lord]

Bare in mind that CKII is focused on playing a dynasty rather than a country.

The EU series is recommended for TW "converts" because it has a similar design, that you play the country as an abstract, and a similar goal, world domination.

[Akrotatos]

Bare in mind that CKII is focused on playing a dynasty rather than a country.

The EU series is recommended for TW "converts" because it has a similar design, that you play the country as an abstract, and a similar goal, world domination.

I like the dynasty focus I always roleplayed with my generals in TW, sometimes even keeping low loyalty generals on purpose to add strife. Thanks for your advise though, EU4 also seems great but I just don't really like playing in a global map.

[eXistenZ]

In my experience, crusader kings is also easier to grasp than EU.

I recommend to wait for a sale though, ck2 has been -75% several times in the last year, paying full for it (especially with all the dlc) would be a pitty. steam holliday sale is end of the month.

[Akrotatos]

I will, thanks!

[ggggtotalwarrior]

Yeah, you should wait, especially with the big patch and expansion due soon, in addition to the Steam sales. I got CKII Complete back in the spring sale (all DLC except for The Old Gods and its assets) for only $20.

[eXistenZ]

The full game with all dlc's (exept old gods), is now on Greenmangaming for -66%
http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/be/e...ii-collection/

I would still wait, it has been 75% numerous times, its a bit of an odd sale

[Ciciro]

The new dlc comes out next week.

[TheBromgrev]

I own CK1 & 2 (got 1 for free simply by being registered to their forum), EU3 and 4 (got EU3 for free for being a forum member), Vicky 2, and HOI3. I had spent countless hours on Medieval 2+mods, Rome 1+mods, and Empire+mods before trying out HOI3. HOI3 was complete garbage until the 4th patch came out, and at that point I was hooked. For me, after some time I found I enjoyed the campaign maps on TW games more than the battles. HOI3 (all Paradox games, really) has a pretty steep learning curve, but HOI3 has a LOT of AI automation options that help you out. The other games don't have automation to the same degree.

Here's my opinion on the 4 major titles:

* CK2 is pretty easy to get into, the dynastic struggles can be really fun and hilarious, and combat is very simple (have more men than your opponent). The game is really a role-playing game, where if your character dies you play as his/her heir and keep going. I like it, but find it hard to keep playing for several days straight. Most of the game is you letting the timer run and dealing with whatever events pop-up. While the events are entertaining, for the most part you play this game by sitting and waiting for something to happen or for the chance to do something. I find it hard to get back into this game after playing a session.
* EU4 is closer to the campaign map of Empire: Total War. You play as a nation, you declare war and conquer, and for the most part it plays out as a much more intelligent version of a TW game. Like CK2, I find that I can spend hours in real time doing nothing, because I'm either waiting for a CB to be generated, waiting for a core to be added, waiting for money so I can build something, waiting for MP to come back so I can build another unit, etc. Lots of real time waiting and doing nothing, which can be entertaining for an hour or two, but gets stale. I find it hard to get back into this game after playing a session.
* Vicky 2 is an economic and political simulator with some warfare elements. At first it looks like the EU series, but the complexity is so much greater. To really have fun with this game, you need to have a real understanding of economic theory. A lot of people in the world THINK they know how economics work, but in reality they have no clue. You don't need to be economist to play this game, but understanding how supply and demand, as well as government involvement in the local economy affects the global economy, will help make this game be MUCH easier to play and enjoy. In Vicky 2, if you tax your people too much then they will revolt. The population is divided into classes and minority groups, which is very different from the other games. Polish farmers in Germany will be more likely to revolt than German farmers because they are a minority, for example. If the price of coal drops, your coal miners may not be able to afford food, and will be more likely to resort to violence to demand minimum wages and other reforms. Market forces may cause your factories to go out of business because they aren't competitive enough. Vicky 2 is the game I have the most fun with (I fire it up about every 2 or 3 days when I get home from work), and is the deepest of the 4 and also the hardest to learn. Building and maintaining units requires that you buy the weapons, uniforms, ammunition, and food required to form the unit on a daily basis. If you can't afford to buy rifles or there aren't enough rifles on the global market, you can't build infantry units.
* HOI3 is the oddball in the bunch. It is a war game, not a nation-building game like the other 3. Politics, diplomacy, and the economy take a back seat to Starcraft-like production and table-top combat. The economy is simply "Industrial Capacity", which requires 3 resources to produce units and buildings. The economic and production side of the game is very simple, and is very much like the Civilization, Starcraft/Warcraft, and Age of Empires games in which everything is abstracted. Pretty much everything can be automated. The main draw for me was the tactical combat, which is similar to the TW campaign maps, but is far more involved. You really need to prepare for the war to come by building and organizing the units your nation will field, and will need to use them in such a way as to minimize casualties and quickly defeat your opponents. Using tanks to surround enemies from all sides and destroy them is vital to winning the war, but doing so requires knowing how to use pinning attacks to prevent your opponent from moving units along the front while your spearhead punches through the enemy front lines and move behind them. Aircraft can inflict massive damage on unprotected ships and troops, so you will need to build interceptors to keep enemy bombers away. Submarines can sink all enemy merchant shipping and cause their industries to cease production. This game is my #2 favorite of the four and is one I play on a regular basis, and I've modded it extensively to the point where all 3 of the expansions actually contain some of my modded improvements, and myself and other members of my mod team have contributed content to other Paradox games, and in one case became an employee of a Paradox affilitiate due to his work on the HPP mod for HOI3.

One major flaw that's present in all Paradox games is the stupid diplomatic AI. Now, by no means is the AI as brain-dead as the "you share a border with me so I will declare war on you" TW diplomatic AI (Total War has an AI? lol), but the Paradox AI still does stupid and rage-inducing things on a regular basis no matter which title you play.

[Niall101x]

Paradox games are not what they were 4-5 years ago, the games may be shinier and the DLC numerous but they don't have the same..... soul.