Lord Giovanni's Preview Thread

[ababych1]

Yes i think you are right Krakow was just the capital.

[MagicCuboid]

Hey Lord Giovanni, I just wanted to say that these units look great .

[Lord Giovanni]

Thanks, MC! I actually have a bit of an announcement to make: due to my entering a very serious time in my life, I won't be able to work on any new units until March. I will still be able to write and brainstorm for the campaign and units, but I simply don't have the time or means to create units for now. This will be only temporary, and I look forward to when I can begin making units again. Thank you all for your understanding.

[Alejandro Sanchez]

ORTHODOX CHRISTENDOM
...

The Kievan Rus'

Greetings!

If you are interesting in 100% native historical names for factions, I can help with this one.

"Kievan Rus'" is exclusively scientific term. And in Russian chronicles and other medieval texts (primary source) this country called as Rus'skaya (var. Ruskaya, Russkaya) Zemlya or Rus'skaia (var. Ruskaia, Russkaia) Zemlia i.e. Russian Land, Rusland. Below the scans from the Laurentian Codex (1377), the most ancient preserved Russian chronicle with examples:

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I wanted to make few comments on the Kievan Rus'. I see a lot of reference to "Russian" people. I want to point out that it is misleading. The people were "Slavs/Slavic"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus' ) or Ruthenians. A lot of the inheritance is with modern day Ukraine (the coat of arms, currency and obviously the capital). Also, I seen in a video that there was a unit "Tsar's Guard". Rus' never had a Tsar, they had a Knyaz' and Druzhyna was the guard actually. Also, there were Varangian units and were quite often used by the Knaz'.

On another note, shouldn't Poland be Kingdom of Krakow? I thought that is more accurate as well.

You are right only with the term "Tsar" in XIII cent., but otherwise you're wrong.

If you read the primary sources, you would know that the native ethnonym of these people was русь - Rus' (it's plural) and русинъ - Rusin (it's singular), and adjective русьский, руская, русьстей - Rus'skiy, Ruskaya, Rus'stey, etc i.e. Russian.

The ethnonym Ruthenian was used only in Latin texts and it's not native. But even Latin autors used word Russiæ which closed to the native ethnonym. For example, quote from Historia Mongalorum of Plano Carpini:

"Quo facto, contra Russiam perrexerunt, et magnam stragem in ea fecerunt, ciuitates et castra destruxerunt, et homines occiderunt. Kiouiam, Russiæ metropolin, diu obsederunt, et tandem ceperunt, ac ciues interfecerunt."

"Which being done, they set forward against Russia, and made foule hauocke there, destroying cities and castles and murthering the people. They laid siege a long while vnto Kiow the chiefe citie of Russia, and at length they tooke it and slue the citizens."

"Post hæc Dux Wasilico transmisit nos vsque in Kiouiam metropolin Russiæ, cum seruiente vno. Ibamus tamen in periculo capitis semper propter Lituanos, qui sæpè faciebant insultum super terram Russiæ et in illis maximè locis, per quos debebamus transire."

"After these things duke Wasilico sent vs forward with one of his seruants as farre as Kiow the chiefe citie of Russia. Howbeit we went alwayes in danger of our liues by reason of the Lithuanians, who did often inuade the borders of Russia, euen in those verie places by which we were to passe."

Also Kiev in XIII cent. was not capital and was not even political center, it's was just city that passed from hand to hand, not had their own political will, but only gave his owner the formal status of superiority over the other Russian Knyazes.

[Alejandro Sanchez]

With your permission I will make a few comments

Even though Makuria was near Ethiopia, it still isolated from the rest of Christendom in Europe and the Mediterranean. That was my definition of the term "isolated".

It's a difficult question. It's obvious that some trade blockade (importation of arms in Nubia, for example) could be. But, does was break of the contacts between countries, cultures? It's debatable.
For example Robert de Clari in his The Conquest of Constantinople mentioned the Nubian King in Constantinople in 1203! This Nubian King made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and then to Constantinople, and his retinue traveled with him:

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"Thereafter it came to pass one day that the barons went to divert themselves in the palace, for to see Isaac and the emperor his son. And when the barons were within the palace, lo, there came thither a king whose flesh was all black, and he had a cross in the middle of his forehead, which had been made with an hot iron. This king sojourned in a very rich abbey in the city, where that Alexius that had been emperor had commanded that he should be and that he should be lord and master thereof so long as he desired to sojourn there.

When the emperor saw him coming he rose up to meet him and did him much honour. And the emperor enquired of the barons, “Know ye now” (quoth he) “who this man is?”

“Nay, lord,” quoth the barons.

“By my faith!” quoth the emperor. “This is the King of Nubia, who is come on a pilgrimage to this city.”

And they bade the interpreters speak to him, and they caused these to ask him where his own land was. And he made answer to the interpreters, in his own tongue, that his land was yet an hundred days’ journey beyond Jerusalem, and from thence had he come to Jerusalem on a pilgrimage; and he said that when he departed from this land he brought full three score of his countrymen with him, but when he came to Jerusalem there were but ten of them left alive, and when he was come from Jerusalem unto Constantinople he had but two yet living. He said, furthermore, that he wished to go on a pilgrimage to Rome, and from Rome to Saint James, and then return thence to Jerusalem, if he might live so long, and then die there. And he said that all they of his land were Christians, and when a child had been born there, it was baptized, and a cross was marked in the middle of its forehead with an hot iron, even such a mark as he himself bore. And the barons looked upon this king with great amazement."

Ibn Khaldun (1332-1406), the great Arab traveler and historian, recounted that it was aggressive Sunni Bedouin raiding and colonization of Christian Nubian territory- and the subsequent fraying of Christian Nubian identity that stemmed from it- that sped Makuria into decline, no matter how tolerant the Makurian government may have been. Hence the religion unrest penalty. His definition of the troubles of Makuria in those days will have to suffice, because I do not know of any primary Makurian sources from the period covered by this mod. The early 13th century was one of sharp decline in Makuria, so while it is regrettable, it is not very surprising. That is why, by your definition, I can't give you a percentage to how "professional" the researching was. I worked with the closest reputable secondary source (Ibn Khaldun) and some encyclopedias like "The Cambridge History of Africa".

I agree with LinusLinothorax that Nubia in the XIVth century is not the same that Nubia in the XIIIth century like for example Golden Horde in XIVth and XVth centuries. I want to quote Abu Salih al-Armani, in his work History of Churches and Monasteries (Tarikh al-Kana'is wa al-Adyirah) he described in detail the wealth of Nubia in the end of XIIth century:

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"The first place in the province of Mukurrah is the monastery called that of Safanuf, king of Nubia, which is the country below the second cataract. The monastery of Michael and Cosmas is large and spacious...
...
A city called the city of Bausaka. This is a large and handsome city, full of people and of all commodities, and possessing many churches. Here dwelt the Lord of the Mountain... Here is the monastery of Saint Sinuthis... Near the town there is a gold-mine.
Mountain of Zidan. Here is the monastery of Abu Jaras, in a town on the west, which possesses a bishop. It is a beautiful town on the mountain.
...
City of Dongola. Here is the throne of the king. It is a large city on the banks of the blessed Nile, and contains many churches and large houses and wide streets. The king's house is lofty, with several domes built of red brick, and resembles the buildings in Al-Irak...
In the land of Nubia is the city of Ibrim, the residence of the Lord of the Mountain, all the inhabitants of which are of the province of Maris... Here there is a large and beautiful church, finely planned, and named after our Lady, the Pure Virgin Mary. Above it there is a high dome, upon which rises a large cross."

and Nubian campaign of Shams ad-Din Turanshah in 1173.

Also we know about campaign of Nubian king David against Red Sea port Aydhab in 1272. And Al-Nuwayri in his The Aim of the Intelligent in the Art of Letters (Nihayat al-arab fi funun al-adab) mentioned Mamluk's Sultanate campaign against Nubia in 1287 in which Egyptian army opposed the centralized Nubian state.

Regard Makuria and its units, presented in the earlier version of Broken Crescent, they have very little historical basis and on 99% are fancied And about Nubian bows I'll write more later

[LinusLinothorax]

It's a difficult question. It's obvious that some trade blockade (importation of arms in Nubia, for example) could be. B

Though personally, i doubt this trade blocade was the reason for the dissapearance of the stirrups on Nubian wall paintings, because i see no reason why Nubians should not be able to make stirrups on their own. At all one can notice that the quality of the the wall paintings got worse in this era; We have some paintings which depict the decorative breastrapes of Nubian riders as stirrups at the same time (Though i dont have one of these on my computer now).
How it goes for chainmail armour i can't tell, i only know that there were found chainmail fragments of Soba, though it's not recronstuctable if their orign is Nubian or foreign.

Can't wait to read more about the bows (And even more for your knights for BC)

[Alejandro Sanchez]

Though personally, i doubt this trade blocade was the reason for the dissapearance of the stirrups on Nubian wall paintings, because i see no reason why Nubians should not be able to make stirrups on their own. At all one can notice that the quality of the the wall paintings got worse in this era; We have some paintings which depict the decorative breastrapes of Nubian riders as stirrups at the same time (Though i dont have one of these on my computer now).

It's quite possible that the style of iconography became poorer and more suppositive. As regards to the trade blockade I assume that at the official level in Islamic countries was banned exports of weapons to Nubia (as Dar al-Harb). On the other hand, has not been canceled smuggling

[Alejandro Sanchez]

And now the promised post about Nubian bows.
What we have with Nubian bows. It's very interesting theme. We have some narrative sources, one wall painting and several archaeological finds.

About Nubian bows writes, for example, Al-Masudi in his The Meadows of Gold:

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"They let the arrows from bows with strange shapes, from them archery adopted residents of al-Hijaz, al-Yemen, and other Arabs. Nubians - those whom Arabs call "the archers of the pupils."

Most detailed story about Nubian archers tells Al-Baladhuri in his Book of the Conquests of the Lands (Kitab Futuh al-Buldan):

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"And entered their cavalry in Nubia, as was entered in Rum during the summer campaigns.

And the Muslims met with strong resistance from the Nubians: they came to meet them and pelted by arrows, so that all of them were wounded. And the Muslims left with many wounds and knocked out the eyes, and the Nubians have been dubbed "the archers of the pupils". And Nubians remained in that position until 'Abd Allah ibn Sa'd ibn Abi Sarh became the ruler of Egypt. Nubians asked him for peace and mutual security, and he gave them consent to do so without payment of jizya, but on the condition of granting three hundred head of slaves annually, and in order to Muslims gave them the appropriate amount of food.

Told me Mohammed Ibn Sad, to whom told Al-Vakidi, who said that told him Ibrahim ibn Ja'far with the words of 'Amr ibn al-Harith, who spoke from the words of Abu Kabila Huyaya Ibn Hani al-Ma'a-firi, and who - from the words of a sheikh of the Himyar tribe, who said: "I have seen twice the Nubians in the reign of 'Umar ibn al-Khattab, and I not saw people stronger in battle than they. I saw how one of them said a Muslim: "Where you want that I hit you by arrow?". And often some heart of oak of us mocked, saying: "In such place." And he [Nubian] did not miss. They shooted a lot of arrows, and almost could not see their arrows into the ground. One day they came to us and lined up against us, and we wanted to attack them at once with swords, but we could not discard them. They shot at us, so that our eyes are disappearing, and there were 150 eyes drop. And we said: "No good in a peace treaty with these [Nubians], because prey from them such small, and the wounds on them hard."

And also possible that Ambroise of Normandy also described the Nubian archers in his L'Estoire de la guerre sainte:

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"Post hos accurrebat gens larvalis colore nigerrimo, qui etiam non inconvenienter ex re nomen habent, quia sicut sunt nigri, vocantur Nigriduli. Saraceni quoque commanentes in solitudine, vulgo dicti Bedewini, horridi, fuligine obscuriores, pedites improbissimi, arcus gestantes cum pharetris, et ancylia rotunda; gens quidem acerrima et expedita. Hi inflexibiter nostro jugiter imminebant exercitui."

"Following these a black race came - Noirets is their most common name, or Saracens of the berrue - loathesome, and black as soot in hue, foor soldiers swift and agile, armed with bows and with light shields. They swarmed upon the host, and closely pressed the assault, with neither cease nor rest."

The image of Nubian bow we can see in the hands of the eparch from the wall painting of XIII cent. from Faras (kept in the National Museum in Warsaw)

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And finally several bows of IV-VI cent. was found in the Royal tombs in Qustul and Ballana. Here's quotes from "Nobadian X-Group Remains from Royal Complexes in Cemeteries Q and 219 and from Private Cemeteries Q, R, V, W, B, J, and M at Qustul and Ballana", 1991 of Williams B.B.

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Finally some resume:

1) composite bow (a meter long) like Asian type (this is the perfect case where visual sources and archeology confirms fully to each other) but not very powerful
2) short arrows (50 cm long)
3) "Mongolian" draw
4) short operating range because 1,2
5) high accuracy because 4 (confirmed by the narrative sources, - Al-Baladhuri)
6) the need for mobility for archer because 4 (indirectly confirmed by the narrative sources, - Al-Baladhuri, Ambroise)
7) the possibility to use a bow on horseback because 1,2,6 (indirectly confirmed by the narrative sources, - Al-Baladhuri)

To point 7, I would add that some authors believe that Nubian mounted archers is a fact, for example, in the book Medieval Africa, 1250-1800 authors Roland Anthony Oliver and Anthony Atmorethe writes:

"In the first millennium AD the Christian Nubians, riding their small horses bareback, were respected for their skill as cavalry archers in the manner of the steppe peoples of Central Asia."

[Lord Giovanni]

Truly, you have done a remarkable amount of research on the Nubians, Alejandro! This will be invaluable in the creation of the roster of the Makurians. We are in your debt.

[Lord Giovanni]

Ok, everyone, I've got an update that I think you'll like. With the recent announcement that religions in Total War: Attila will have their own concrete benefits, it seems odd that we have a faction grouping entirely determined by religion, namely Orthodox Christendom, with their faction traits being tied to the Eastern Orthodox religion. Therefore, in order to give the different factions which just happen to be Eastern Orthodox faction-based and not religion-based characteristics, as well as potentially add new requested factions, I've decided to split Orthodox Christendom into three new branches: BYZANTINE CHRISTENDOM (Nicaea, Trebizond, and the Kingdom of Georgia), SLAVIC CHRISTENDOM (Second Bulgarian Tsardom, Kievan Rus' and the Serbian Grand Principality), and AFRICAN CHRISTENDOM (Kingdom of Makuria and the Ethiopian Empire).

[dogukan]

I was wondering if it would be too much of a work to make HRE a distinct group on its own with some major duchies such as Austria, Brandenburg and various other factions as well as Bohemia being part of it? THey would also have a specia alliance system? Kind of like Seleucids...

[FrozenmenSS]

Great work mate, From Bulgaria with love .

[bobbydobby333]

Are you going to continue making units in attila












t

[Lord Giovanni]

Once I regain access to my main computer, I plan to continue making new units, yes. I want to finish my planned additions to the Latin Empire roster, for starters.

[Lord Giovanni]

Hello, everyone! After an extended hiatus from unit and campaign map work, I've regained access to my main computer and will immediately resume building new units for the factions. Thank you all very much for your patience with me these last months, and I hope that you'll like my future contributions!

[Ltd.]

welcome back, LG

[finix]

I'm glad you're with us again