The Debate in the Athenian Ecclesia

[Barry Goldwater]

(OOC: Unless someone else has made a rebel Greek character, only Ace should be present in this thread. It's basically a prelude to the Lamian War)

The Pnyx was ablaze with activity on this fine morning. In sharp contrast to the pleasant weather, dire news had arrived from the east: Alexandros, King of Macedon, conqueror of the world and overlord of the southern Greeks has perished from an illness without leaving a clear heir, presenting quite the opportunity for the Athenians and other like-minded Greeks to reclaim their freedom. This crisis has necessitated an emergency session of the Athenian popular assembly or 'ecclesia', and now today's gentle breeze was being drowned out by the shouts of arguing Athenian citizens, leaving none among the gathered in a mood to enjoy the sunlight.

"What you are proposing is madness, Demosthenes!" A modestly-dressed statesman thundered at one of his bearded compatriots. "Alexander's death does not mean the death of his army, which outnumbers ours by a significant margin even before he started adding the barbaric multitudes of the east to its ranks. And those soldiers are doubtless more experienced than ours - while he sent the last of our contingent home after sacking Persepolis, something for which I hope the gods let him into Elysium eventually even as I pray that Kerberos is gnawing upon his limbs today, his own men continued to follow him beyond the borders of the earth to fight the monsters and dark-skinned savages of India, where they not only survived but prevailed!" He slammed his fist on the stone wall, in the process squashing an unfortunate fly, for dramatic effect. "To rise up now, before his body is even in the ground and while his kingdom still presents a united front, would invite doom upon us all. We would be crushed by their forces as I have just crushed this insect!"

"No, it is waiting in light of such a golden opportunity to reclaim our liberty that would be madness, Phocion!" The man named Demosthenes shot back. "Alexander's generals have not a tenth of his cursed strength nor bestial cunning. He leaves no clear heir in his wake, and they will no doubt be busy debating the succession while his body turns cold. So long as they do that, and better yet if they were to outright turn on each other, we could seize the day and liberate not just ourselves but the whole of Hellas from the northerners' yoke!" He raised his foot and brought it down, smashing a passing roach. "All we need now is the courage to do just that, and then as our ancestors did at Marathon and Plataea unto the ancestors of his new Persian subjects, we shall surely crush their divided ranks like I just crushed this roach!"

Demosthenes' and Phocion's argument has spilled over to include the rest of the ecclesia, whose members alternately cheer or shout with approval and boo depending on who was talking. Some decided to add their voices to the din as well:

"Demosthenes is right! My father was slain by Alexander's dread horsemen at Chaeronea fifteen years ago. I would welcome any opportunity to avenge him hundredfold with the blood of the Northron savages!"

"My brother fell at Chaeronea too, but you know what? I am with Phocion! We should have peace, so that no more of us must risk losing their fathers, their sons, their brothers and their lovers on the field of battle."

"Why should I hate Macedon? The Macedonians have done nothing to me, save make me rich by buying weapons and armor from my foundry and using my ships! Not to mention they present us with the opportunity of exporting our goods as far as Bactria & Arachosia, while importing exotic luxuries ranging from the cedars of Phoenicia to those majestic pachyderms from India and silks from Persia. I say we maintain our ties with them."

"So says the man blinded by northern gold and soft eastern comforts! All true men of Hellas should be able and willing to fight for our freedom now that we have a chance."

"I cannot go to war, I have a wife and six children to care for here, not to mention a seventh is on the way!"

"All the more reason to fight, fool! You should be honored for the opportunity to march to free them from Macedonian overlordship, to make sure that your sons and daughters can grow up free Greeks!"

On and on the debate raged. In one of the quieter moments, when many of the other Athenians had argued to the point of hoarseness and some had even turned away to refresh themselves, Deucalion - one of several Athenians who had previously defied the Macedonians and had now returned to his home polis - found a chance to make his voice heard...

[Ace_General]

A tall man with salt and pepper dark hair stands and says

Demosthenes, it has been too long my friend. If we had 10,000 men combining your brains and guts, combined with Phocion’s skill in battle, we would be masters of the known world.

The man steps forward to address the greater assembly

Some of you younger men may not recognize me, so I shall introduce myself.
I am Deucalion, son of Athos. I stood with Demosthenes and those Hellenes who valued their freedom in opposing Macedonian oppression. As a young man, I first drew blood with the Macedonians three decades ago at Corcus Field and served with distinction in the Sacred War. I served also as a diplomat and advisor to the northern Geek cities that were attempting to resist the Makedonians. I was at Chaeronea leading a body of our horse on the right flank and I personally stood against the dread horsemen and cross sword with Alexander. I also was present in the doomed final stand of Thebes and was among those exiled. Since then I have been out amongst our western cousins in Syracuse and Megale Hellas (OOC: Magna Graecia, the greek cities in southern Italy), aiding them in their struggles against Carthage and the Italic barbarians.

Now that I have introduced myself, allow me to perhaps put forth for your evaluation a different policy.
As some of you may know, with the death of Alexander, the League of Corinth is now null and void. There is no legal bonds holding us to the Macedonians, yet for fear of there power many states do not wish to move against them. And while I share Demosthenes zeal against the Macedonians, if we attacked them preemptively, it would cast us as the aggressor and it would be hard to rally the other Greek states to our cause.

Rather, I think that instead we should try to create a defensive alliance of Greek states in Hellas, and rally our armies and take up defensive positions in the mountains and passes of Thessaly. Then we send a joint delegation of our confederation to negotiate with the Macedonians from a postion of strength.

There we ask for recognition of our independence, trade, friendship, and a pact of non-aggression. If the Macedonians do not recognize our independence and still wish to dominate us, then they have to spurn our peace offer and declare war upon us. That way, they are the aggressor. And with our army in Thessaly, any fighting that takes place is as far forward from our cities as possible, in terrain that is most favorable to us. If we can get the Horse of Thessally, along with either the numbers of the Acheans or regiments of the ever solid Spartans to add to our own strength, combined with the mountains and hills of Thessaly that impede the power of the Macedonian horse, we have a very good shot at winning. If we make Hagan and his army attack us, he is not the equal of Alexander, and we may exploit any faults his army makes attacking us and perhaps ambush him or force battle upon him form a disadvantageous postion.
Finally, we should endeavor to reach out to Olympias and the Eperiotes, along with the northern tribes to open a second front in case the Macedonians wish to assault us. That way, we are not the only thing that Hagan and his army has to worry about, which when we through our valor and cleverness show that it would not be a simple campaign to sweep the free greeks form our defenses in Thessaly, make him more inclined to sit down and hear our offer. Our homes and lands and families have for too long been under the threat of the vile Makedonian, so if he wishes to make war upon us let him fear for his lands and home and womenfolk.

My fellow citizens , if I thought we could not succeed, I would just stay in exile, for I have enough wealth, attractive slave girls, wine, and estates to happily live out my life instead of come here and risk my wealth, honor, and neck in the defense of my home city and Greek honor and Freedom.

These are uncertain times. Bravery and Strength of heart are needed, but along with boldness we must also be clever. The plan I have put forth is the best chance at redeeming greek Freedom. On the one hand we attempt to show the Macedonians peace, and if they spurn it, they are the aggressor and we are in the strongest postion, both morally and physically to turn back their assaults.

Demothenes, old friend, what say you of this plan? And what say you Men of Athens?

[Barry Goldwater]

"Thank you for your wise words, Deucalion," Demosthenes made a friendly gesture towards the new speaker. "He speaks truth. I maintain that I am not wrong in calling for war with the Makedones - but if we can expel them from our fair lands without once having to raise a kopis or spear in anger, so much the better. I will lend my support to his plan."

Phocion remains unmoved. "Suppose we do as Deucalion suggests and issue a demand for the recognition of our freedom to the Macedonians. They refuse us. And then? Do we back down, thus appearing to be the greatest fools in all Hellas since Ixion, or do we insist on forcing a confrontation we are not ready for? Our position is still not strong enough to withstand them on the field of battle, even if the Argeoioi, the Aetolioi and Thessalikoi were to join us."

Demosthenes shook his head and grudgingly admitted, "Though I must once again restate my vehement disagreement with Phocion's peaceful ways, I will concede that he has a fair point in regards to our strength." He called for a servant to bring a map of Hellas and declared to Deucalion & the crowd, "I have been assured that our like-minded compatriots in Aetolia, Argos and Thessalia will join us should we come to blows with Macedon. However, the Boeotioi are not likely to do the same - Alexander may as well have gelded every man in that region when he laid Thebai to waste twelve years ago, as now the men of Thespiai, Orchomenos and Amphissa have become eager bootlickers to the Makedones. The loyalties of the Achaioi are an open question, and though the Spartiates defied Alexander's command to support his eastern wars I do not imagine they will be in any hurry to aid us either, even if we were to all just forget the tragedy of the Peloponnesian War. And were we to try to reach out to our fellow Hellenes...well, I think we can all agree that the Makedones are barbarians, but fools they are not. Unless we are extremely fortunate and secretive, they will likely learn of our dealings with the other poleis and come to only one conclusion as to why we are doing such things." He turned to look directly at Deucalion and added, "What is your plan for dealing with the other Greeks while we await a Macedonian answer to our demands, Deucalion?"

[Ace_General]

OOC: Im tried and have stuff to do tomorrow, so forgive the quality of this post as I am writing off the cuff in the interests of moving the game along. Please take mercy on my 2 am ramblings lol

Deucalion cracks a very mischievous smile and says

Well, to get all of the representatives of the Greek cities together, we hold sacrifices and funeral games in honor of the death of Alexander. That way we appear dutiful subjects of the northern dogs, but we may hold a secret congress. There we should attempt to get the support of the Achaeans and Spartans.

We also try to get the Boeotioi to see things our way. If they refuse and remain loyal subjects of Macedon, we seize them and hold them while we march our forces from Aetolia, Attica, and Thessaly into Boeotia. With such a quick move we should get the Boeotians to quickly capitulate.

I know this seems to be a bold move, but if we do not secure Boeotia, Thessaly will be cut off and we will have to confront the Macedonians in Attica. Also, if we act decisively, we can demonstrate to the other Greek states how we can act boldly and effectively and that will give us a better chance of having them join our alliance. That and the fact that if there is any fighting, we can do it as far away from the heart of Hellas as possible in the hills of Northern Thessaly

[Barry Goldwater]

"A clever gambit, Deucalion." Demosthenes clasps his hands together. "Well, unless anyone else has any further objections to make, I propose that we call this matter to a vote. Who here votes in favor of holding lavish sacrifices and funeral games for the great Alexandros, who we all shall surely miss dearly, and to invite the Achaioi, Boeotioi and even the Lacedaimonoi to send their representatives?" A great clamor erupted, but once the assembled citizens raised their hands, it quickly became apparent that Deucalion & Demosthenes' supporters had an overwhelming majority.

Phocion grunts and shakes his head. He did insist on asking, "Who here opposes the reckless course of action proposed by Demosthenes and Deucalion, and to desist from moving against Makedon for the foreseeable future without further debate?" for all the good it did him - barely a fifth of the gathered citizens raised their hands in support of his motion, and even they had to deal with the boos and looks of disapproval from their peers. Still, he did finally hang his head and silently concede defeat to the anti-Macedonian faction after this vote.

While their supports basked in their triumph, Demosthenes turns to Deucalion and quietly adds, "Unless they are complete fools, the Makedonoi will surely send at least one representative to witness our celebration - ahem, lamentation at Alexandros' death. And I do not think it wise to devise plans around the belief that our enemies are stupid enough to do everything we need them to do to prevail. What are your plans for dealing with any Makedonoi emissary or emissaries when they inevitably come here?"

OOC: Right then, let's get this show on the road.

[Ace_General]

"A clever gambit, Deucalion." Demosthenes clasps his hands together. "Well, unless anyone else has any further objections to make, I propose that we call this matter to a vote. Who here votes in favor of holding lavish sacrifices and funeral games for the great Alexandros, who we all shall surely miss dearly, and to invite the Achaioi, Boeotioi and even the Lacedaimonoi to send their representatives?" A great clamor erupted, but once the assembled citizens raised their hands, it quickly became apparent that Deucalion & Demosthenes' supporters had an overwhelming majority.

Phocion grunts and shakes his head. He did insist on asking, "Who here opposes the reckless course of action proposed by Demosthenes and Deucalion, and to desist from moving against Makedon for the foreseeable future without further debate?" for all the good it did him - barely a fifth of the gathered citizens raised their hands in support of his motion, and even they had to deal with the boos and looks of disapproval from their peers. Still, he did finally hang his head and silently concede defeat to the anti-Macedonian faction after this vote.

While their supports basked in their triumph, Demosthenes turns to Deucalion and quietly adds, "Unless they are complete fools, the Makedonoi will surely send at least one representative to witness our celebration - ahem, lamentation at Alexandros' death. And I do not think it wise to devise plans around the belief that our enemies are stupid enough to do everything we need them to do to prevail. What are your plans for dealing with any Makedonoi emissary or emissaries when they inevitably come here?"

OOC: Right then, let's get this show on the road.

Deucalion smiles and says to Demosthenes

Why dear friend, we ply them with fine undiluted wines, free exotic whores, and praise for their leader and for vanquishing the Persians. The Macedonians are cunning of an animal sort, but their unrestrained appetites and self love I will wager will get the better of them.

That and we have some Athenians say how they wish to sell to a market that extends from Eprius to India and how we cannot possibly stand against the conquerers of Darius. Make it seem that we meet the Macedonians idea of us greeks and Athenians as craven, acquisitive, and decadent.