The British EU Referendum: In or Out

[snuggans]

Well there's a surprise. The social consensus of the liberal left including Blair, Clinton, Cameron the EU and many others, having spent 25 years sneering at the poor working class and its concerns and demonising them as thick bigots while simultaneously using globalisation and mass-immigration to reduce their wages and take away any hope of a dignified life, act all surprised and hurt when they turn around and bite.

huh? ... but it's the right-wing who opposes raising minimum wage and wages in general.




anyway:



we brexit now!

[sleepyx732]

Already they are back to playing the blame game. Before the EU decides to shut out the UK completely I really ought to take one last vacation there.

[Fanest]

UK from my perspective as an EU citizen was an all time wild card that prevented EU to federalize or make a closer bods which would improve stability on the continent. With them out of the picture i see i much brighter picture on horizon. Also i think EU should use every possible instrument to cut the ties with UK (specially financial) and let them build relations with EU anew. Not only this would prove EU to be the stronger party in negotiations but also that its still capable of doing things according to the rules and policies agreed by the member-states.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

It's like people that wanted UK to remain in the EU actually wish for UK to crash and burn just so they can brag about being right.

I think you ought to stop spreading apocalyptic propaganda because all it does is to make things worse for you.

It's pretty petty that some people would rather see their country burn just so the Brexit camp will suffer a political defeat.

[mrmouth]

Egalitarian Democratic Institution ^

[Almogaver]

...

Well there's a surprise. The social consensus of the liberal left including Blair, Clinton, Cameron the EU and many others, having spent 25 years sneering at the poor working class and its concerns and demonising them as thick bigots while simultaneously using globalisation and mass-immigration to reduce their wages and take away any hope of a dignified life, act all surprised and hurt when they turn around and bite.

Wonder what happened to the Scottish and Irish poor working class... did they get their vote wrong?

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Ha ha ha ha ha!
Any comments about the horde of lefties here are deleted. You people are hilarious.

[Greyblades]

Pound is down, but the FTSE 100 is recovered.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Wonder what happened to the Scottish and Irish poor working class... did they get their vote wrong?

The Scots are leftist. The Irish are the Irish, they'll vote anything just to tweak England's nose.

[Muizer]

Ah, the sweet smell of the air.

The sweet tears from these butthurt women and muslims in the UK. Thank God the men that rebuilt their country from the greatest war ever seen came out and voted. The leftists almost clinched it (not really though). Alas, if only they had more muslims and 22 year old sociology experts to ing vote for the future of the country. Hahahaha.

Enjoy your high while it lasts. You'll be paying for it for years to come, though I'm sure you'll find someone else to blame again. Populist politicians and their narrowminded following, afraid to acknowledge a changing world demands forward thinking, not sticking your head into the sand. It's an evil on the rise everywhere in Europe. Not just in Britain. They'll be the ruin of us all.

[Greyblades]

Compare the leave vote with the protestant distribution in Northern Ireland, it's rather telling.

[Humble Warrior]

It's like people that wanted UK to remain in the EU actually wish for UK to crash and burn just so they can brag about being right.

I think you ought to stop spreading apocalyptic propaganda because all it does is to make things worse for you.

It's pretty petty that some people would rather see their country burn just so the Brexit camp will suffer a political defeat.

It`s called being sore losers rather than Gentlemen about it.

I guess they wanted an army and EU Dictator to walk in and shove everyone who disagrees into concentration camps.

You never know it might still happen and we can play BOB all over again!

[ShockBlast]

If the EU has principles upon which it is founded, as its supporters claim, isn't unrestricted trade one of them? Yet what do they really stand for when they are threatening to impose trade barriers because one of its members left? There are no principles behind the EU and its bureaucrats. It's about control and power.

Well, yes ! But you see there is a catch, you must follow EU rules and pay your share for maintaining the common market.
Now that UK is out, they have very diminished negotiating power and EU will be...erm.."reticent" to roll off any EU rules that still apply.
Any future rules Eurocrats agree in Bruxelles, without Britocrats, will have to be implemented without much of a say.

TL ; DR UK just reduced itself to a modern economic protectorate of the EU if it still wants free trade with EU.

[Fanest]

This is the start of UKrumble, it wont be long till clearing houses get their allowances denied.

[Almogaver]

It`s called being sore losers rather than Gentlemen about it.

I guess they wanted an army and EU Dictator to walk in and shove everyone who disagrees into concentration camps.

You never know it might still happen and we can play BOB all over again!

You forgot to make a remark about "ze huns" and something about the Kaiser and then you would have gotten the jackpot.

[ShockBlast]

This is the start of UKrumble, it wont be long till clearing houses get their allowances denied.

Well Scotland has to show them English how "Freeeeedom" TM is done. ))

[Mangalore]

It's like people that wanted UK to remain in the EU actually wish for UK to crash and burn just so they can brag about being right.

I think you ought to stop spreading apocalyptic propaganda because all it does is to make things worse for you.

It's pretty petty that some people would rather see their country burn just so the Brexit camp will suffer a political defeat.

Outside Britain it's tit for tat, really. The British referendum did not just decide some British issue, it has massive repercussions throughout the rest of Europe. Actually a reason I'm not fond of these kinds of referenda since they are actually a form of tyranny by the minority since select groups of voters get extra leverage to bail out of agreements or make decisions for all the rest of Europe. And it's not only the Brexit that did that but this one will create the most chaos and hurt for all sides involved, be it British or any other European.

I also think in a lot of countries the referendum format is sorely lacking because it is a binary affair which means it always has a chance of being 50% destructive. Imo more actual constructive alternatives would be more sensible so at the end of one politicians and voters do not only know what they can't do but also in what direction they should go in terms of policy. E.g. "Stay in the EU", "Leave specific treaties xyz to reduce commitment to a certain aspect", "become a privileged partner like Norway", "leave!"

Another issue there is you always have near 50% winners and near 50% losers. Thing is, in democracy the issue is not election but the ability of compromise after the election so the interests of far more than 50% of people are met on average. That's what all that boring parliament work more about than pure "We win! You lose!"

But i disgress, that may be a good topic for the PA.

[Roboute Guilliman]

It`s called being sore losers rather than Gentlemen about it.

I guess they wanted an army and EU Dictator to walk in and shove everyone who disagrees into concentration camps.

You never know it might still happen and we can play BOB all over again!

Well England is going down that route Nazi germany was. The far right is there and gaining popularity. We got a scapegoat. We got unwanted immigrants. Installation of fear of an evil neighbour(no idea why its germany). Only difference with the germans the english brought it all on themselves. I think half of these Brexit voters still believe you are some sort of empire. Got to go with the days. Your navy has been dismantled. Most of the ex colonies want nothing to do with the crown. Scotland wants nothing to do with far right english nationalism. Northern Ireland is raising questions. And 22% of your GDP, London, didnt want this mess. And yet you are here talking about grandeur of being a Tommy landing in Normandy, fighting against some imaginable german oppressor.

[Menelik_I]

To claim that the EU is the vessel through which UK power shine, in the same way a penis strength shows through a condom is stupid, its more like being in a room with 20+ drunken people while trying to be reasonable.

The EU will crumble under 1 million refugees intake per year, massive debt and an autocratic system under commissioners.

[ABH2]

Well, yes ! But you see there is a catch, you must follow EU rules and pay your share for maintaining the common market.
Now that UK is out, they have very diminished negotiating power and EU will be...erm.."reticent" to roll off any EU rules that still apply.
Any future rules Eurocrats agree in Bruxelles, without Britocrats, will have to be implemented without much of a say.

TL ; DR UK just reduced itself to a modern economic protectorate of the EU if it still wants free trade with EU.

What cost has to go into maintaining the common market? This is the point - the entire monstrosity in Brussels isn't needed. It adds no real value, and it isn't needed for free trade. At most you could argue free trade needs the protection of property rights, and that already exists within the member states. There is no need for an overarching bureaucracy taking a cut through taxation and then distorting the market with their regulations which are harmful. What is discussed here is inefficiency.

What the UK and other states that follow their lead (hopefully there will be more over time) should be working towards is the creation of a common market without the EU. For that to even happen, leaving the EU now is a necessity. It's only going to grow larger and the UK was being drowned out within that. So, if I were in charge, this would be my own goal. The baby steps are renegotiating the terms from outside the EU. And hopefully there is an American president sometime soon who will help them achieve that.

The goal of the EU is not free trade or a common market. They were merely the means to an end for the political class. Its time to gleefully kill their dream. The market does not need a federal government.