Cataphracts are totally OP unit

**PlautusLeo** · September 24, 2015, 04:47 AM

Catas are too strong due to their alt+ attack.
Not only is other cav no match for them but they also defeat Urban Cohorts. Yes that is right, URBANS!!!
And they defeat these urbans with ease.

I don't know how to balance it. Rules seem stupid. And banning factions would remove Armenia, Seleucids, and Parthia.
Also the Romans do not seem to do too well against elephants. And their spearmen are

.

I would like to mod the game, but the problem is to find people to play with.

**Delvecchio1975** · September 24, 2015, 08:02 AM

Armenia and the Parthians have really crappy infantry - especially Parthia. The cataphracts balance their unit roster a little so that they have a chance of survival on the campaign map, although they need to survive until they can actually train them when upgrading to elite stables (or whatever building it is). The Parthians have both generals cataphracts and regular cataphracts, because they get no good infantry whatsoever, the Armenians get some decent units later on, so they only have regular cataphracts.
The Seleucids have a much better infantry roster, but they get gang raped by all their neighbours early on, so they have nearly no chance of survival anyway. Cataphracts make as good as no difference for them.

I assume you're complaining from a battle perspective, not a campaign one. Countering cataphracts you can do by breaking their charge and then pile infantry on them. I'm sure when they're standing still in melee they'll be no match for your urban cohorts. With regards to the elephants, either scare them with fire arrows (always works) or kill them with javelins. Horse javelins preferably, they can get out of the way in time.

**PlautusLeo** · September 24, 2015, 08:05 AM

please no noobs here who try to refute my statement!

**BatGoat** · September 24, 2015, 08:26 AM

Cataphracts are supposed to be OP, after all, they are the ancient equivalent of modern day tanks. And yes, they do tend to make a meal out of most infantry troops they are sent to squash, but given that they are heavily armoured cavalry, that is to be expected. But, as a previous poster has pointed out, if you swamp them with heavy infantry of your own, they fold like Superman on laundry day.

As for elephants, they can be taken out before they reach your lines by effective use of skirmishers. Playing as the Romans, velites are you best friend. Those

ers are elephant Kryptonite. Either that or fire arrows from archers. But you have prioritise taking them out before they can chew your lines, otherwise you're in for a lot of butthurt.

**Skizzy** · September 24, 2015, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Delvecchio1975

Armenia and the Parthians have really crappy infantry - especially Parthia. The cataphracts balance their unit roster a little so that they have a chance of survival on the campaign map, although they need to survive until they can actually train them when upgrading to elite stables (or whatever building it is). The Parthians have both generals cataphracts and regular cataphracts, because they get no good infantry whatsoever, the Armenians get some decent units later on, so they only have regular cataphracts.
The Seleucids have a much better infantry roster, but they get gang raped by all their neighbours early on, so they have nearly no chance of survival anyway. Cataphracts make as good as no difference for them.

I assume you're complaining from a battle perspective, not a campaign one. Countering cataphracts you can do by breaking their charge and then pile infantry on them. I'm sure when they're standing still in melee they'll be no match for your urban cohorts. With regards to the elephants, either scare them with fire arrows (always works) or kill them with javelins. Horse javelins preferably, they can get out of the way in time.

Armenia has Cataphract Archers too ;]

**PlautusLeo** · September 25, 2015, 11:55 AM

the only thing that can beat them is phalanx. Romans lose.

**Skizzy** · September 25, 2015, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by PlautusLeo

the only thing that can beat them is phalanx. Romans lose.

Have Cataphracts run to a point behind the phalanxes and the phalanx falls.

**Careless** · January 23, 2017, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Delvecchio1975

Horse javelins preferably,.

wait, do horse javelins work like velites?

**Magnentius** · January 24, 2017, 01:39 AM

Yes they do. But they habe only a small number of javelins in my opinion. So use them wisely.

Greets, Magnentius

**Ironlich** · January 28, 2017, 11:40 AM

Vanilla total wars are a joke... in rome you can kill spartans with some weak cavalry. In M2TW you can kill armies with some general bodyguards. Not talking about archers, they can obliterate light troops in seconds. Vanilla is made for kids who want to see their heavy cavalry steamroll infantry, archers raining death from afar, their catapults obliterate enemy armies despite the fact that catapults are not supposed to kill soldiers but destroy walls and towers. There is no purpose in playing vanilla if you like total war.

**RangerGxi** · February 22, 2017, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ironlich

Vanilla total wars are a joke... in rome you can kill spartans with some weak cavalry.

You think the Spartans are gods? They've been defeated numerous times in infantry battles.

**Ironlich** · February 25, 2017, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by RangerGxi

You think the Spartans are gods? They've been defeated numerous times in infantry battles.

Who said they are gods? But you shouldn't be able to quickly rout elite infantry with some light cavalry. Did you read the battle of Cannae? The romans were completely surrounded yet it took till nightfall to destroy them. Even so, some thousands legionnaires managed to force their way and escape. Or you really think that battles lasted 10 minutes like vanilla rome?