Teutonic family tree?

[selv]

Hey guys,

I did a quick search as I am considering to use the teutonic tree for some factions, but I have no experience with it and all I found 'dedicaced' to the subject is this ebII thread:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...light=teutonic

If I am gathering right, it can work for players but ai has troubles to survive due to lack of adoptions...
At the end of the thread, z3n theorized this:

Never had a problem myself either.

As to how it could have such problems, I've theorized that the AI may have some thresholds for age, command stars/other traits when adopting which in turn cause it to 'reject' offers. This is simply based on test reports/results, in any case this way we won't have to worry about how the AI does or doesn't handle it anymore.

I would test it but I have tons of things to finish already, it's no time to add myself a other 'to do' on my list.
So while the possibility of using the teutonic tree cross my mind, just wanted to ask if you have now or have ever used the teutonic party, before my modding schedule is (about/sort of) cleared and that I can try myself with only good traits and such in adoptions candidates for concerned factions?
Or if you think it's not worth the try?

[QuintusSertorius]

I only know that the myriad problems it seemed to create for EBII vanished when we ditched it.

[Gigantus]

The only time (because of this drawback) I use the teutonic family tree is for an unplayable faction that gets resurrected anyhow - like the beastmen in Rage of dark Gods who get spawned ad absurdum in small stacks all the time.
Also saves me dreaming up a descr_strat family entry that doesn't matter anyhow.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

It seems the only problem is that the AI factions don't always get enough random adoptions, thus can run out of family members. In BOTET, we have such a short timescale at 12 turns per year, that family trees are just as much of a problem, since children won't come of age fast enough, leading to factions dying off from the short starting family trees never getting a chance to branch out.

One simple solution that could work for some mods is to script a small chance every turn of a new family member spawning, and/or going more complex and spawning them if certain conditions are met, like gaining new or specific regions.

Also, I don't think a family tree is completely ignored if a faction is set to teutonic, you just can't see it. Characters that are set as relatives of the faction leader in descr_strat still show up as family in the campaign, and I don't think it automatically renders them all celibate. Even with teutonic factions, there's a difference between family members and generals, from what I've seen.

[Gigantus]

Scripting is an option - as long as you have a place where to spawn them. I believe the I_NumberOfHeirs condition tests the number of family members eligible to be heirs and can be used. It would also be a way of testing your theory that a family tree still has influence in this setting.

[Withwnar]

TATW uses teutonic for Orc factions. In our submod we also use it for a few others. Factions dying from lack of 'family' doesn't seem to be a problem, though we do have script to spawn family members when they're running low (I_NumberOfHeirs = count of named characters, including leader and heir, family member or otherwise). But as Gig alluded to, you need to some pretty fancy script to make them spawn into a relevant location, e.g. one they own at spawn time (which you cannot make assumptions about).

One catch with teutonic: heir does not become leader. He stays heir and whomever has the highest Command becomes leader. Only when he's the only remaining named character does he becomes leader.

[selv]

Thanks for the answers, I love you guys. In a very platonic way unless you all happen to be women with uniques attributes. (cools spirits, that's absolutely what I mean by uniques attributes)

Anyway, I remembered this thread on dying factions, though I didn't get the time to think more on this.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...lve-the-glitch

With teutonic tree and given Withwnar's view on the 'use' of heirs, I think that sending the teutonic heirs off-map might just be a good start to slow down the potential stupid glitch, and maybe try to anticipate their natural death with the CeasedFactionHeir event, spawning a other bogus family named character to send off_map at that time, he doesn't need to be faction heir or other than 'family'...

Off_map trick seem the best way to be safe the longest, without need of constant regular spawns that may or may not end up 'family'. Maybe there is a chance of trick failure after the first heirs generation dies (if the spawn don't make it in 'family') but it seem worth the try after all. I might try a variant with normal family tree as well. Euh, later that is. Maybe next month or the one after I will have the luxury to try something new.