''Mod out or not play'' controversy

[Captain Arrrgh!]

No, yeah, it was an organic response. What, you think stormers are that motivated and organized? They couldn't even plan a bake sale.

It was organic. Most decent people are cowed, and though angered, afraid to speak out. Most are followers and don't want to be publicly shamed, a cowardly, marxist tactic that SJW's excel at. After Ella made her disgusting, unprofessional comments there were, in fact, immediate review changes and comments on it that were scrubbed, and it built from there.

If I owned a game company, and one of my staff, with a tasteless, unprofessional avatar btw, was being so rude and discourteous to the consumer base, then she/he/it would be out the door.

To be honest, if CA had of sold their update and promoted it properly as a DLC, and titled it "Women in History" or something, I may have considered it. And I didn't mind it much as a patch anyway. For me this is entirely about Ella's behavior, but I can totally see why people would be angry about CA's political turn as well.

[bigfootedfred]

No, yeah, it was an organic response. What, you think stormers are that motivated and organized? They couldn't even plan a bake sale.

It was organic. Most decent people are cowed, and though angered, afraid to speak out. Most are followers and don't want to be publicly shamed, a cowardly, marxist tactic that SJW's excel at.

Afraid I must stop you there captain.
I no longer care if someone identifies as left, right, alt, sjw, or a pink flying elephant.
If they behave in this way, they should simply drop all the pretentious drivel about being political, and just admit that they enjoy being an insufferable jerk.

This is what political discourse is now.
Anyone disagrees with anything anyone says the names fly.
"you calling me a sexist?"
It's pathetic.
If political orientation is nothing more than a few trigger words in an article, or social media guru, or youtube holy icon, or whatever the hell it is people allow to do their thinking for them.
As for that forum, no, not organized in that sense. Considering all people need is a few trigger words these days to go ape over nothing, very little organization is required.

Well. I suppose I got that off my chest.

Edited out political/offtopic remark.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Afraid I must stop you there captain.
I no longer care if someone identifies as left, right, alt, sjw, or a pink flying elephant.
If they behave in this way, they should simply drop all the pretentious drivel about being political, and just admit that they enjoy being an insufferable jerk.

This is what political discourse is now.
Anyone disagrees with anything anyone says the names fly.
"you calling me a sexist?"
It's pathetic.
If political orientation is nothing more than a few trigger words in an article, or social media guru, or youtube holy icon, or whatever the hell it is people allow to do their thinking for them. Then what is the point, just exchange cuck & nazi with each other for 30 minutes, and be done with it.
As for that forum, no, not organized in that sense. Considering all people need is a few trigger words these days to go ape over nothing, very little organization is required.

…

Well. I suppose I got that off my chest.

I agree mostly, Fred, but this is not the place for it. The topic of this thread are precisely these mainstream polemics.

This site can't handle anything higher. It's doomed to be mired in Hegellianism, and any higher gnosis is beyond it. They're most lauded member has rings and rings of accolades for keeping debates base and paradigm-oriented.

Don't expect anything more form this site, and particularly from a thread the very topic of which revolves around the items you're saying irks you.

There would be zero reward-for-effort on TWC to go into what actually caused all these terms and movements in the first place, and what it means. They did not just suddenly drop onto the human stage, "koprizo ex machina".

Argumentum ad Wikipedium is one of the main reasons I mock this place.

[Welsh Dragon]

NOT TO MENTION, I've been waiting A FULL YEAR for them to fix a reinforcement bug in Total Warhammer (that was already fixed in game one years ago but re sprouted in game two) but they have resources to waste on updating female generals in a 7 year old game?

Not sure if you're aware, but an opt in patch for the Reinforcement bug has been available for over a month.

Hope that helps.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[legate]

So instead of ignoring a number of trolls, elements of CA instigated a flamewar. What triggered Ella and is she best to be in her current position?

In any other company she would be sacked.

[[Tar]Naru33]

This is not an issue of misogyny, unless you actually believe historically minded fans are misogynistic because they want a more realistic depiction of generalship and armies? In which case, you hold a bigoted view.

I believe anyone making a big deal out of it (the ones review bombing the game for example) to not be genuine at the very best. Gaming is full of misogynist and racist people, its no secret to anyone that pays even a slight attention. So, yeah, I am going to give the side-eye to anyone who makes a big deal out of such a cosmetic difference in the game. This game is able to be modded if they do not like it. Again, this game series has never ever been about historical accuracy and CA has made this clear over its history in making the Total War series.

If you mean bigoted view as in dislike misogynist groups who disguise their reasons, then I will proudly keep this view. Do not get me wrong, I believe the minority of complaints are genuine about "historical accuracy", but they are also the ones, I would think are not being a child about it.

Don't go into marketing or PR. Ever.
Ella committed the absolute worst mistake, treating the consumer like garbage. Female gamers are also commenting on Steam and agree this was a horrible comment.

Not all consumers deserve to be catered to. Those people review bombing and causing a huge ruckus over something like this are examples of that type of consumer.

[legate]

Female generals have been out since March, the review bombs only came with the poor attitude from Ella.

So its nothing to do with men not liking women, it was the attitude from Ella.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Keep it civil gentlemen. You're making it far more personal and political than it should be and as a result further moderation will follow.

[KamenLily]

Female generals have been out since March, the review bombs only came with the poor attitude from Ella.

So its nothing to do with men not liking women, it was the attitude from Ella.

CA needs to learn from Firaxis.
You can't trigger your customers if you never say anything to them.

[tgoodenow]

Not sure if you're aware, but an opt in patch for the Reinforcement bug has been available for over a month.

Hope that helps.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

I’m aware but upset that it took so long to implement. Don’t like the prioritization of junk DLC content over bug fixes. Appreciate the info, I’ve already uninstalled all my total wars and won’t be picking them back up. Final straw.

[Happy_Gilmor]

Female generals have been out since March, the review bombs only came with the poor attitude from Ella.

So its nothing to do with men not liking women, it was the attitude from Ella.

Exactly, funny how this simple fact is ignored in order to push the "your sexist, racist, etc" nonsense.

Heck if the read the reviews right now some of the best written and thought out reviews on this topic give the game a thumbs up, but they just rake CA over the coals.

[The Wandering Storyteller]

This is all a nonsensical issue. Where female generals appeared historically, they should. But this is a what if game. I once realized that standing on historical accuracy will never be accurate. All of history is an interpretation by itself. What the Romans wiping out all traces of Carthaginian history isn't such a big issue now? Females or not - this is just a game. Video-games are just that. RII is not a realistic historical simulator of the ancient world. It was never was and will never be. Same with all the other games.

All this negative stuff will impact RII on a positive scale though. This game was viciously and mercilessly bombarded by the community which hailed the game as a flop. I too didn't like it at first but now I think it's awesome. Even after the fun updates, Notice how for every one or two positive comments, there 10 negative comments. Why? When you called this game nonsense and all about the AI(Sorry to say but AI shouldn't be an issue anymore. CA had ten years to perfect their AI and they only make small changes.) stuff, then why go back to this game and start complaining about RII's 'muh female generals'?

Why isn't there any complaints on the review forum for CITY MODELS? CITY SETTLEMENTS MAPS ARE THE SAME! We should be demanding that than some petty issue of female generals. Why is there NO DEMAND FROM THE FORUM MEMBERS FOR TED ON AN INDUSTRIAL SCALE WHERE THE MEMBERS SEEM TO COME OUT ALL DEMANDING FEMALE GENERALS TO BE REMOVED, BUT CAN'T ARGUE ON THE FACT THAT EVERY CITY YOU BESIEGE IN RII IS THE SAME MAP! AREN'T YOU LOT TIRED BY BESIEGING THE SAME CITY? RTW HAD DIVERSE CITY MAPS! WHERE WERE THESE PEOPLE COMPLAINING WHEN CA PROMISED A UNIT EDITOR IN NTW AND NEVER DELIVERED THEN? WHY DIDN'T THE COMMUNITY THEN REVIEW BOMB NTW FOR THAT MATTER?

Almost 10 years of impropriety and rudenes towards users:

- game sold by slices through dlc policy
- expensive bugged day one releases never completely patched after tons of gb of fixes
- anti-modding policy hypocritically masked with the release of some questionable tool
- etc..

and no one care! Even when this forum, the lighthouse of this community, has started to lose a lot of users that irredeemably lost their interest.
Now a patch gives the chance to have female generals for some factions and a company employee accidentally revails the company behavior towards users saying "mod out or not play!"...and people suddenly start rising hell!
I think that the users that now complain for this irrelevant little things deserve to be threated forever like cash cows. An ancient roman quote says: "Forgive an offence and you will encourage many". Now it's too late friends...just relax and it will hurt less

The modding issue should be far more important. The total war community should either review bomb RII on its limiting modding tools rather than complain about the smallest issues in this world.

It was this community that after all argued that RTW 2 modding tools were limited, but it wasn't from there, it was from ETW! Empire! Empire was the day CA started limiting modding tools!. So why the heck female generals are important is beyond me.

[TotalJojo]

I have been playing Rome 2 on and off for a few years now, when daughters of mars was released i do not remember any real backlash because it was optional and all that. i feel like this game needs a "historical" and "A historical" setting before you pick a campaign. there were female generals. but they where the exception not the norm. for every Zenobia there was ten thousand Philips or Bigus Beards walking about. what i find most out of order is the official response from CA themselves. i have no interest in rubbish "current year" politics or the wants and needs of a few nut-jobs who think history should be changed to make themselves feel better. but it is a little hard to ignore the blatant "women where just as strong" attitude that seems to reek from every corner of the modern gaming industry.

[Lifthrasir]

Keep it civil gentlemen. You're making it far more personal and political than it should be and as a result further moderation will follow.

^^ This again. I've deleted/edited several posts here. Next time I won't be that lenient. You've been warned.

[Clint_Eastwood]

I think the main point is that so many people are pissed off with CA is

1. CA_Ella's comment on Steam
2. Now today I hear we are been called "Nazis" by CA?? Wtf is going on at Horsham Studios??

Why are they not concentrating on developing games...instead of making stupid comments.. I am sure she was probably having an off day, but sorry you are representing the company you work for so you need to abide by company rules and be professional at all times..it is simple she acted on her own statement!

There have been a lot of years that CA did not even talk on these forums and I would see many modders screaming and shouting at CA to give them stuff, to communicate etc...eventually they started with Modding summits and since then it all looks like it has gone downhill!! No summits, Stupid comments from CA employees...Now I run a business and if my employees had made comments like this to my customers they would be called into boardroom, cautioned and HR would be having serious words with them! Hence all social media is banned in my workplace and it is a Cautionable offence and three strikes your out!

Onto female generals...well simply mod them out..there are plenty of mods that remove them, I personally see some games where there are many Balkan, African female generals then other games there are nothing! This is simply not about female generals anymore, This is about CA's approach to its customer which is simply not acceptable! I hope heads are rolling at CA right now...and as for this "Nazi" stuff well I hope its not true as they are seriously going to lose faith from here customers...wow I really cannot believe that I have typed the above!!

[legate]

CA was calling its fans 'Nazis'?

[TotalJojo]

CA was calling its fans 'Nazis'?

i think this is the tweet they officially endorse https://i.redd.it/iilxfqykvoo11.jpg

"Everyone i don't like is a nazi" strikes again!

[Welsh Dragon]

I've been following the whole "Nazi" thing much of today (with my back problems flared up there's not a hell of a lot I can do right now, so it passes the time.)

The original Twitter account is here: https://twitter.com/dean_bigbee/stat...62887459704832

When I checked it, it didn't have the CA like. It did have two likes, as in the shared screenshot, but neither are CA. I haven't seen the CA like on it, I've only seen the much shared screenshot.

Honestly, the possibilities it's a hoax, some kind of auto-like program liking any post that tags CA (which I didn't know actually existed, but apparently they do,) or simple human error (I've accidentally liked or upvoted a fair few posts in my time, especially on my mobile,) seem more likely to me than CA or someone at CA intentionally calling their fans "Nazis" at any point, let alone when they're already in the middle of this firestorm.

For starters, I don't think most people would be that dumb!

But that's just my view on this. I respect if others have reached a different conclusion.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[legate]

Interesting.

Maybe CA should, oh I dunno, stick to making games, ignoring trolls and engage better with their fans?

I wouldn't rule out a hoax though.

[TotalJojo]

I've been following the whole "Nazi" thing much of today (with my back problems flared up there's not a hell of a lot I can do right now, so it passes the time.)

The original Twitter account is here: https://twitter.com/dean_bigbee/stat...62887459704832

I haven't seen the CA like on it, I've only seen the much shared screenshot.

Honestly, the possibilities it's a hoax, some kind of auto-like program liking any post that tags CA (which I didn't know actually existed, but apparently they do,) or simple human error (I've accidentally liked or upvoted a fair few posts in my time, especially on my mobile,) seem more probably to me than CA or someone at CA intentionally calling their fans "Nazis" at any point, let alone when they're already in the middle of this firestorm.

For starters, I don't think most people would be that dumb!

But that's just my view on this. I respect if others have reached a different conclusion.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

i get the whole :mistake: or auto thing, but this is their official account, i should not have to play mind games to determine what they did or did not mean by this, if they did not do it put out something official. if they refuse to say anything on the matter than until they say otherwise it is true.

@

legate its 2018 gotta show those customers how much you do not like their opinions.