Thoughts on the Three Kingdoms Release

[Gaius Baltar]

I have in the past reviewed and discussed the impact and activity around recent TW releases. I thought I would do the same for the Three Kingdoms release. I have not yet had a chance to download the game but intend to do so probably next week sometime, when I have a planned break in my work schedule.

Of note I was online at the 2am (local time) of release. I counted 26 members and 200+ visitors online, and underwhelming amount of activity that stands in stark contrast to other releases I was online for (MTW2, Empire, Rome 2). I see alot of early positive reviews, and quite a few negative mostly concerning game crashes (bugs). Interesting to see how this plays out.

I will post my own game reviews here as my experience unfolds. Please feel free to add your own.

[PikeStance]

I have played less than 15 turns. My input is a little limited. However, 3K is perhaps one of the the most beautifully crafted games that CA has released to date. (the only exception is the unit cards). The UI is intuitive and it doesn't overwhelm you with too much information. They have simple and detailed stats. I really have no trouble figuring out where things are.

The site is dying. Changes needed to be done years ago. This is the new normal. I doubt there are enough people willing to make these changes. (let's not make this thread about this though)

[z3n]

Honestly I am not that excited, or excited enough to buy the game. I'm an older fan and not really that interested in spending money on things like this anymore when they get simpler with each passing iteration.

Their AI has improved (mildly so -- the battle AI still makes very sad "mistakes" like running cavalry straight into pikemen, for the sake of it being fun I assume). And fortunately under the leadership of Lusted, Rome 2 was able to get the update it desperately needed, which makes it an absolutely great game with DeI. Players have proven this to be the case through steam stats (it's consistently their most played game other than the "newest" release)


If it had been a new expansion to Rome 2, where it added in China and India and added new mechanics, I would have bought it instantly. But it's not.

[La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham]

To be honest it really isnt my era, having said that though it is a polished game, beautiful to look at, and plays straight from the box so to speak, the hero duals are brilliant.
I think you have to have a pretty good rig to run it on all ultra settings , luckily enough I'm averaging 86 fps.

[Hader]

I still care most for the historical titles so I'll eventually pick it up, however since Shogun 2 my friend and I have mae habit of basically playing through each TW game a good while after their initial release, mostly due to them finally being polished off after that much time, and partly due to that's just when we can actually play together. We're still on Rome 2, but I see us doing this next probably.

That said, seeing so many positive views on release is at least promising, though not enough yet for me to buy it quite yet, especially considering my time these days.

The site is dying. Changes needed to be done years ago. This is the new normal. I doubt there are enough people willing to make these changes. (let's not make this thread about this though)

Then why bring even it up?

You seem to love to point this out anywhere and everywhere possible. I'm sure no one is new to the notion nor got the idea solely from your postings on it.

[PikeStance]

Then why bring even it up?

<sigh> I didn't.

Of note I was online at the 2am (local time) of release. I counted 26 members and 200+ visitors online, and underwhelming amount of activity that stands in stark contrast to other releases I was online for (MTW2, Empire, Rome 2). I see alot of early positive reviews, and quite a few negative mostly concerning game crashes (bugs). Interesting to see how this plays out.

[Gaius Baltar]

Another thought as I browse the reviews, that most of the comments have do with "artwork" and respectfully the polish, or lack of glaring bugs. This is all well and fine, its encouraging that the majority of reviews (~90%) are positive at this point. However, what I am not seeing is in game screens from battles and comments on the battle AI. It appears that the new generation of TW players is edging towards the campaign side of the game, and maybe even simply auto-calking battles. This to me has been the general movement of the TW series with most of the work dome on the game engine, campaign map, and with almost nothing done with the battle mechanics and battle AI. In fact I would go as far to say that the battle AI for the original Medieval TW was superior is most aspects to any of the following productions.

Looking forward to seeing some battle graphics, hopefully in the POTW and UESW contests here on TWC.

[Seether]

I have noticed the same. Battles are, from my several hours of play thus far, lackluster - to put it mildly. The AI is pretty atrocious and can’t properly attack or defend, while the collision and “air stabbing” are big eyesores. Soldiers in a unit are essentially clones with very little differentiation between individual soldiers. The historical side of me screams when I see all of the Qin and Western Han era equipment, and futuristic counter-weight trebuchets, on the battlefield.

[PikeStance]

Another thought as I browse the reviews, that most of the comments have do with "artwork" and respectfully the polish, or lack of glaring bugs. This is all well and fine, its encouraging that the majority of reviews (~90%) are positive at this point. However, what I am not seeing is in game screens from battles and comments on the battle AI. It appears that the new generation of TW players is edging towards the campaign side of the game, and maybe even simply auto-calking battles. This to me has been the general movement of the TW series with most of the work dome on the game engine, campaign map, and with almost nothing done with the battle mechanics and battle AI. In fact I would go as far to say that the battle AI for the original Medieval TW was superior is most aspects to any of the following productions.

Looking forward to seeing some battle graphics, hopefully in the POTW and UESW contests here on TWC.

I am only about 29 turns in. I have taken three settlements. I did fight one mall battle but it wasn't large enough to catch any glaring issues with the decision making of the AI. I did have two opportunities to fight sieges, but in both cases, it was predicted to be a Pyrrhic victory, so in both cases, I opted to keep the siege. In both cases, the AI chose to fight me and both were a predict to be a decisive victory, so I auto resolved it.

I first came to Total War (Shogun) because of the battle, like you, I have noticed that more and more, CA is opting to boost the campaign experience and they do little to add realism to the battles. I am looking at a game that promises to be what I thought Total War would eventually become. The game is called, Grand Tactician. (Youtube channel). If you are interested in the tactical side while still having a strong focus on the campaign side of things, then this game looks totally legit.

Anyway, I was thinking this the other night. 3K may be too pretty, too artsy. I am hesitant to write any reviews until after the awe of it has worn off.

@Seether. We need to get a team together to address the lack of historicity of the game.

[Gaius Baltar]

I am only about 29 turns in. I have taken three settlements. I did fight one mall battle but it wasn't large enough to catch any glaring issues with the decision making of the AI. I did have two opportunities to fight sieges, but in both cases, it was predicted to be a Pyrrhic victory, so in both cases, I opted to keep the siege. In both cases, the AI chose to fight me and both were a predict to be a decisive victory, so I auto resolved it.

I first came to Total War (Shogun) because of the battle, like you, I have noticed that more and more, CA is opting to boost the campaign experience and they do little to add realism to the battles. I am looking at a game that promises to be what I thought Total War would eventually become. The game is called, Grand Tactician. (Youtube channel). If you are interested in the tactical side while still having a strong focus on the campaign side of things, then this game looks totally legit.

Anyway, I was thinking this the other night. 3K may be too pretty, too artsy. I am hesitant to write any reviews until after the awe of it has worn off.

@Seether. We need to get a team together to address the lack of historicity of the game.

I need to read more from this period to learn about the weapons and tactics. Is there such a publication? I suppose we should start looking for a Three-Kingdoms Total Realism as a mod project.

[PikeStance]

I am not the person to ask about the period. Seether or Zoner are two people that have been a wealth of knowledge on the period.
I find, as a military history buff, that China seems to get very little attention. Chinese generals are rarely, if ever, mentioned among the top 100 of military leaders.

I have been throwing out challenges to those who have knowledge to team up with those with modding skills to such a thing; a realistic historical mode.

[Seether]

I am not the person to ask about the period. Seether or Zoner are two people that have been a wealth of knowledge on the period.
I find, as a military history buff, that China seems to get very little attention. Chinese generals are rarely, if ever, mentioned among the top 100 of military leaders.

I have been throwing out challenges to those who have knowledge to team up with those with modding skills to such a thing; a realistic historical mode.

@Seether. We need to get a team together to address the lack of historicity of the game.

I’m definitely interested in helping out on an historical mod.

When I do my review in a couple days, I’m going to include some critiques on things to improve the game. Some of these will be strictly historical in nature, relating to making “Records” mode distinct from “Romance” mode.

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

The increasing requirements for TW games (and, well, games in general) continually outstrip my ability to upgrade my hardware, so I have no plans to pick this game up; unfortunate, since this is the period that inspired my two degrees and years of Chinese language study. That being said, I have little to do with the Three Kingdoms these days, so I'm not overly concerned. I'll be interested to see what DLC they bring out though, and what periods they choose to run with for future campaigns: the subsequent period in Chinese history is markedly less popular and well-known, so I wonder what they end up seeing as the most commercially viable. Until then, CK2 and M2TW mods are enough to keep me going.

[PikeStance]

I’m definitely interested in helping out on an historical mod.

When I do my review in a couple days, I’m going to include some critiques on things to improve the game. Some of these will be strictly historical in nature, relating to making “Records” mode distinct from “Romance” mode.

If someone else do not get the ball rolling on it, I will certainly get something going

The increasing requirements for TW games (and, well, games in general) continually outstrip my ability to upgrade my hardware, so I have no plans to pick this game up; unfortunate, since this is the period that inspired my two degrees and years of Chinese language study. That being said, I have little to do with the Three Kingdoms these days, so I'm not overly concerned. I'll be interested to see what DLC they bring out though, and what periods they choose to run with for future campaigns: the subsequent period in Chinese history is markedly less popular and well-known, so I wonder what they end up seeing as the most commercially viable. Until then, CK2 and M2TW mods are enough to keep me going.

I am kind of curious what direction they are going in. It is clear they prefer the "Romance" /fantasy stuff, and I do not know of any "Romanitization" of other periods on the level of the Three Kingdom period.

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

I am kind of curious what direction they are going in. It is clear they prefer the "Romance" /fantasy stuff, and I do not know of any "Romanitization" of other periods on the level of the Three Kingdom period.

There have been a number of other 'Romance of the such-and-such' books, none of which are anywhere near as popular or successful as Three Kingdoms. The only exception is the Fengsheng yanyi, which isn't translated as 'Romance...' at all, but rather Investiture of the Gods. It has been adapted to a video game before, but it's probably not massively well suited to being a TW style game. The likeliest candidates are I imagine something instead to do with Yue Fei or Genghis Khan, which would lend themselves well to a grand strategy game with multiple factions. This was also the direction Koei went with the sister series to their own Three Kingdoms games, so it's a good bet. Western audiences are probably more familiar with Genghis Khan and the Mongols as well, so he might be good inroad for people unfamiliar with other periods of Chinese history. Then again, Shogun 2's Rise of the Samurai was definitely out of left field, so who knows.

[PikeStance]

There have been a number of other 'Romance of the such-and-such' books, none of which are anywhere near as popular or successful as Three Kingdoms. The only exception is the Fengsheng yanyi, which isn't translated as 'Romance...' at all, but rather Investiture of the Gods. It has been adapted to a video game before, but it's probably not massively well suited to being a TW style game. The likeliest candidates are I imagine something instead to do with Yue Fei or Genghis Khan, which would lend themselves well to a grand strategy game with multiple factions. This was also the direction Koei went with the sister series to their own Three Kingdoms games, so it's a good bet. Western audiences are probably more familiar with Genghis Khan and the Mongols as well, so he might be good inroad for people unfamiliar with other periods of Chinese history. Then again, Shogun 2's Rise of the Samurai was definitely out of left field, so who knows.

My bad, Hitai, I wasn't meaning to suggest that isn't any, but as you said, they are not as well- known or popular and would be less enticing to set a DLC to.
I personally, if they had gone more historical, the Warring State period is classic TW content. However, they will probably choose a time period that may be more appealing to as many people as possible. I would have the 5 Dynasty and 10 Kingdoms Period and have the Mongols be an end game crisis.

[Basileos Leandros I]

2 cents here - as a TW veteran closing in on almost 20 years, I really recommend TW 3 Kingdoms.

I actually have it in 2 copies, in fact, since I have 2 Steam accounts. The game is visually spectacular, very beautiful and the UI is done well. Diplomacy is a gem and the overall gameplay mechanic is solid. Yes, the AI is not ideal but it's better than previous and the effort is in there.

[Gaius Baltar]

2 cents here - as a TW veteran closing in on almost 20 years, I really recommend TW 3 Kingdoms.

I actually have it in 2 copies, in fact, since I have 2 Steam accounts. The game is visually spectacular, very beautiful and the UI is done well. Diplomacy is a gem and the overall gameplay mechanic is solid. Yes, the AI is not ideal but it's better than previous and the effort is in there.

I have read alot of positive comments concerning Three Kingdoms. I do intend on purchasing and playing the game, however, I have a few considerations that are mostly technical in nature that are delaying any software purchases at the moment. First, I am tinkering with some upgrades to the older computer I am using for gaming, and secondly, it appears I wont have any extended blocks of time to devote to exploring the game, which is a major consideration right now. I am looking forward to it and will also probably try some mods as they arrive.