Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[PointOfViewGun]

WHO advised Ukraine destroy high-threat pathogens in their biological laboratories.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...nt-2022-03-11/
Wait a minute, high-threat pathogens in laboratories on Russian borders? But for what purpose? It's known Putin's toys, not Zelensky's I mean.

This is what we call deception through selective parameters. Every at least semi-developed country has high-threat pathogens in their labs as they are used for wide variety of research purposes including vaccine development. Every country is scheming against every other bordering country now? Sigh...

[Janbāru]

@ bitterhowl, that's not exactly my undertanding of the article and anyway, assuming that your "claim"/meaning is correct, don't you believe that Russia has the same kind of facilities?
Russia has already used chemical weapons not that long ago. Let me refresh your mind: Sarin gas in Syria and Putin's 'poisoning' of Navalny: Russia's dark ties to chemical weapons | Daily Mail Online

Human Rights Watch found that at least 85 chemical weapons attacks occurred in Syria between 2013 and 2018, the majority of which they blamed on the Russian-backed Syrian government. Both Moscow and Damascus have denied the government's use of bioweapons even though Assad admitted to stockpiling them in a 2013 Fox interview.
On 2018 an apparent sarin gas attack in the city of Douma was reported to have killed an estimated 40 to 50 people.

According to that article, the risk is also high for Ukraine.

About your previous posts about medias in Russia, how do you explain the following: Two Days of Russian News Coverage: An Alternate Reality of War - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[Ludicus]

Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence

Meta Platforms (FB.O) will allow Facebook and Instagram users in some countries to call for violence against Russians and Russian soldiers in the context of the Ukraine invasion, according to internal emails seen by Reuters on Thursday.
The social media company is also temporarily allowing some posts that call for death to Russian President Vladimir Putin or Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko.Emails also showed that Meta would allow praise of the right-wing Azov battalion, which is normally prohibited.

ISIS sells explosive belts equipped with the latest technology,with the reward of 50 virgins in Christian heaven or the Wagnerian Valhalla. At the customer's choice.

[bitterhowl]

I do believe Russia has those facilities and even more I know where is one of them. I want to know why WHO give it's recommendations now, after 15 days of warfare. I also suppose that such facilities have instructions for measures at such cases without WHO advices.

I'd like to remind that it's not time of Reddit battles, the time has changed. So let's discuss serious things, not "highly likely stories" about Syrian "white helmets" performance or Mr Navalny case. I'm living in Russia and I know that when Russian officials want to eliminate a person they do it. No evidence was given to Russia and even to Western people. Lancet article about "one man case"? I'd like to compare medical data from that article and Mr Navalny's data. I'm sure there will be some surprises.
Additional - what do you know about the fate of Russian high ranking "criminal authority" Mr Parpalia? He was in Omsk city same time with Mr Navalny. I'd like you to seek and compare.

I also know that Russia has pretty enough weapons to destroy enemies to avoid usage of biological weapons that will have only worldwide consequences without real battlefield effect. That's all that I will ever say about this cases.

About your previous posts about medias in Russia, how do you explain the following: Two Days of Russian News Coverage: An Alternate Reality of War - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

I'd like to remind that I'm living in Russia and I don't need to read NY Times articles to see what happens here.

I already wrote that we got live conference in our local forum with Russian and Ukrainian participants, with different opinions, we share information from confirmed sources even from army. I'm not watching TV at all. I have all opportunities to seek information that I interested. I understand that both sides at war are use false flags and lies. What I see here is blaming Russia according to biassed opinions.

You should rename a thread into "Blaming Russia for Ukraine invasion". No problems, if it's your way of coping for "Putin's spike". I suppose it could warm your houses this spring because your government has nothing else to give.

[Janbāru]

I do believe Russia has those facilities and even more I know where is one of them. I want to know why WHO give it's recommendations now, after 15 days of warfare. I also suppose that such facilities have instructions for measures at such cases without WHO advices.

Why not? May be the Covid crisis has left some bad memories. Better to be safe than sorry, don't you think?

I'd like to remind that it's not time of Reddit battles, the time has changed. So let's discuss serious things, not "highly likely stories" about Syrian "white helmets" performance or Mr Navalny case. I'm living in Russia and I know that when Russian officials want to eliminate a person they do it. No evidence was given to Russia and even to Western people. Lancet article about "one man case"? I'd like to compare medical data from that article and Mr Navalny's data. I'm sure there will be some surprises.
Additional - what do you know about the fate of Russian high ranking "criminal authority" Mr Parpalia? He was in Omsk city same time with Mr Navalny. I'd like you to seek and compare.

That's an easy goal to achieve: ask directly your questions without any hidden meaning.

I also know that Russia has pretty enough weapons to destroy enemies to avoid usage of biological weapons that will have only worldwide consequences without real battlefield effect. That's all that I will ever say about this cases.
I'd like to remind that I'm living in Russia and I don't need to read NY Times articles to see what happens here.

I already wrote that we got live conference in our local forum with Russian and Ukrainian participants, with different opinions, we share information from confirmed sources even from army. I'm not watching TV at all. I have all opportunities to seek information that I interested. I understand that both sides at war are use false flags and lies. What I see here is blaming Russia according to biassed opinions.

You should rename a thread into "Blaming Russia for Ukraine invasion". No problems, if it's your way of coping for "Putin's spike". I suppose it could warm your houses this spring because your government has nothing else to give.

All I see is that you're trying to justify unjustifiable acts from Putin. Note that I said Putin, not Russia. This is not a world conspiracy against your country when all medias outside of Russia are mentionning that Putin has made a law to muzzle any opposition to the official russian medias. Are you saying that this is a lie from our medias?
To go further, you're supporting the russian acts. Fine. I have no problem with that at all. But how do you want to make a real impartial opinion if you're not listening all parties? How can you confront views and opinions if you're not listening everybody? How can you be so sure that we, Westerners, are wrong if you're not checking our sources as well?
You're mentionning ukrainian's opinions in favor to Russia. Good. Can you post links then, to let us made our minds? I mean, we haven't seen them, or at least many of them. Unless I'm mistaken, the vast majority of Ukraininians seem to be in total opposition to the russian invasion

[bitterhowl]

Thanks for a correct answer first of all.

If you'll seek for my posts in this thread and reaction on them you'll probably understand why I have to use sarcastic way. I have to say that I registered here in 2011 and on our local forum in 2015 only for searching information about how to make Westeros in Medieval II. All years before 2020 my activities in internet mostly was about that. No politics, no forum holywars. I had my position for myself. I started to discuss politics on local forum after Navalny case because I'm medic and I worked in Omsk for many years and I personally know people who saw his medical data. That's all I can say. And just the same things happened in that thread where our "liberal" members wrote just biassed mad things pretty far from reality, so I had to write in sarcastic way only.

I already gave links here to Yury Podilyaka's channel, some of his videos are translated now. I gave a link to Donetsk's resident Artem Grishanov's channel - you may look comments to his videos. I'd like you to find Alexander Kots' telegram channel, he's a military journalist. I posted a video from Kherson yesterday - wasted occupated land, yes?

When I say it was humanitarian passes from Russia I get an answer that Ukrainians will be killed there that's why they don't use those passes. This is an opinion too, yes, but should I consider it more than once?

Here's a link to Madison Cawthorn's position.
https://abc11.com/madison-cawthorn-u...dent/11640081/
Reaction? "Spreading Putin's propaganda".

[nhytgbvfeco2]

I want to know why WHO give it's recommendations now, after 15 days of warfare.

Because Russia bombs hospitals.

[Mithradates]

Putin says Russia to use Middle East volunteer fighters against Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin gave the green light on Friday for up to 16,000 volunteers from the Middle East to be deployed alongside Russian-backed rebels to fight in Ukraine

"If you see that there are these people who want of their own accord, not for money, to come to help the people living in Donbass, then we need to give them what they want and help them get to the conflict zone," Putin said from the Kremlin.

Shoigu said the operation was all going to plan before requesting Putin's approal for the use of fighters from the Middle East.

Does this sound like "winning"?

[Alastor]

Does this sound like "winning"?

To be fair, he said "the operation was all going to plan". He didn't say winning, or that the plan was to win.

More seriously, Shoigu is probably just trying to save his skin. But there are too many embarrassments, including the admission that conscripts were sent to Ukraine "by accident" a day or two ago, in direct contradiction to Putin's apparent understanding of the situation. Putin must be looking for alternative candidates already.

[PointOfViewGun]

Drone cameras Canada to send to Ukraine banned earlier for export to Turkey because of use in combat

The cameras Canada will provide to Ukraine for use against the Russian military are the same ones the Liberal government earlier banned for export to Turkey after they were used in combat.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced Wednesday the government would provide $50 million in new military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Some of that money will be used to purchase Wescam surveillance cameras for Ukraine’s Bayraktar TB2 armed drones. The Bayraktar TB2 is built by Turkey and has been sold to Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Poland and several other nations.
Sources tell this newspaper the money will be used to buy between 30 and 40 of the cameras from L3Harris Wescam in Hamilton, Ont. It is not known how quickly the surveillance cameras can be made available to Ukraine and the Canadian government has not provided any details.
Last April, Marc Garneau, then Canadas foreign affairs minister, put a halt to exports of L3Harris Wescam cameras to Turkey for use in the Bayraktar TB2. The ban on exporting the sensors to Turkey came after the Canadian government determined the Bayraktar drones were used by Azeri forces fighting Armenia in the enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh.
“This use was not consistent with Canadian foreign policy, nor end-use assurances given by Turkey,” Garneau stated.
The ban on exporting the cameras to Turkey will remain in place.

Sigh... Prime example of Western idiotic double standards...

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

To be fair, he said "the operation was all going to plan". He didn't say winning, or that the plan was to win.

More seriously, Shoigu is probably just trying to save his skin. But there are too many embarrassments, including the admission that conscripts were sent to Ukraine "by accident" a day or two ago, in direct contradiction to Putin's apparent understanding of the situation. Putin must be looking for alternative candidates already.

Literally everyone who served in the Army would be an improvement.

[Condottiere 40K]

1. In Syria, Russians bombed from above, the Assadists did the actual ground fighting.

2. They need hardened troops to break into Kiev.

3. Probably ran out of Chechnya special forces.

4. Chechnya hitmen probably thought twice about the odds.

5. I would be that Belarusian auxiliaries also aren't keen.

6. This is where Putin calls in his marker with Bashar.

7. If the Russians start chucking out barrel bombs from transport aircraft and helicopters, we'll know the exact state of the Russian arsenals.

8. Speaking of which, I haven't heard anything about Russian munitions factories and aircraft manufacturers.

9. In theory, they should be working around the clock to replace losses.

A. How hard would it be to get some satellite photos showing increased activity around them?

B. Since Ukraine is now getting resupplied from the West, they don't have to worry about that.

C. Also, I assume they are getting heavily subsidized as well, so their entire adult population could mobilize and fight the Russians, if they choose to do so.

D. Even ballet dancers have joined up.

E. Looks like transferring helicopters is a lot less controversial (at least to how NATO sees it).

F. It was less to do with plausible deniability, because there is none, and more to do with delivery through indirect means, so no transfer between an American base direct to a Ukrainian airport.

G. I think they have to find a way to wheel them across the border.

H. Speaking of wheeling, why not transfer stocks of old Russian armoured fighting vehicles of Warsaw Pact vintage?

I. Now, I wouldn't send them in as the spearhead, but during the exploitation phase when Russian conscripts run for it, once the frontline is pierced.

J. Or surprise the Syrians, double encirclement of Kiev while the Russian forces get bogged down.

K. The British appear to have been comparatively generous with their modern anti tank and anti aircraft man portable systems.

L. Could be Boris hopes it distracts from his obvious collusion with the Russian billionaires, giving them a head start to abscond with their money and yachts.

M. I'm pretty sure Boris has decided to chance that Russia is going to have a revolution, and become like America, ruled by oligarchs and corporations.

N. Who'd still like to party in London, and extend their generosity to the Tories.

O. The Russians have finally cottoned on that leaving your vehicles in the middle of the road is a bad idea.

P. Probably the reason they sent in Russian generals, to act as traffic cops.

Q. Despite the stalemate, it's still a dangerous time for the Ukrainians.

R. The Russians have opted to starve the defenders out of besieged cities.

S. Considering their original timetable, I don't this was their first choice, rather a reflection of their ineptitude in urban warfare.

T. Which is why they had to call in the Syrians.

U. The Wagner group probably doesn't have enough mercenaries, and they prefer easy meat.

V. I think they have to secure Kiev for a very simple reason, besides being a war prize.

W. While the Ukrainians, if they win, won't cross the Russian border.

X. They can easily pass on the guided missile weapon systems to the Belarusian opposition. once they have run out all the Russian in Ukraine.

Y. You know, those intended consequences of handing indigenous forces advanced weaponry, and they passing it on to other indigenous forces.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Its more a footnote in this war, but i found it interesting:

Both Rammstein and its front man, Till Lindemann, have quite a fan base in Russia. Lindemann has given several solo concerts in the country and had plans to perform in Novosibirsk and Moscow at the end of this year as part of his "Ich hasse Kinder" ("I Hate Kids") tour. He canceled them following the Russian attack on Ukraine, but he pledged to play a concert scheduled in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv if circumstances allow.
On its website, Rammstein took a clear stance against the war and in support of Ukrainians. In a statement in German, Ukrainian and Russian, the band said it's particularly saddened by the suffering of Ukrainians. "Each member of the band has different experiences with the two countries; all musicians have friends, colleagues, partners and fans in Ukraine and Russia."
The band said it is aware of the despair that many Russian fans feel in the face of their government's actions, and they want to "remind people of the humanity that Russian and Ukrainian citizens share."
Lindemann recently joined the many volunteers helping out at Berlin's main train station, where many Ukrainian refugees have arrived in recent days.

Rammstein shows solidarity with Ukraine along with new release | Music | DW | 11.03.2022

[bitterhowl]

Ok, some daily idiotic skepticism here.

Talking about "Putin's spike". It's clear that Putin is bloody mad dictator who wanted to smash Ukraine. What about another side of the Force, the Fortress of All Good and it's Masters. It's clear they wanted to prevent attack and save Ukraine. What did they do for this purpose? Seems that their strategy was to arm Ukraine with modern weapons and lay sanctions on Russia. Arm Ukraine. Lay sanctions. Repeat.

One saying here about ineffective Russia. Seems that Western strategy isn't so effective too. Because here is Putin's aggression. Especially now when all Western countries and even the whole world feels side effects of those sanctions on itself. Russia didn't stop gas and oil transfer even for a second even those 15 days. So fuel prices rocketing is not because of that. But it's "Putin's spike", ofc.

We do believe that Western officials are not stupid. They definitely know what they're doing. A question is - why did they do what they done?

(I'm not even asking about such options for preventing attack as Minsk II or something else).

[Legio_Italica]

"WHO also promotes biosecurity at laboratories, e.g. prevention of accidental or deliberate release of pathogens. As part of this work, WHO has strongly recommended to the Ministry of Health in Ukraine and other responsible bodies to destroy high-threat pathogens to prevent any potential spills," Jašarević said.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news...-22/index.html

Looks like the WHO is still dutifully servicing Beijing’s party line. This time a nod to the “secret US bioweapon labs” conspiracy theory to give the Kremlin cover for a bioweapon “leak.” I guess there’s zero chance anyone at the so-called health organization has any remorse for directly contributing to the CCP Covid coverup. Whenever this is over the US needs to isolate and destroy the WHO as a hostile non-state foreign intelligence agency. Too many lives have been sacrificed to their greed.

[Janbāru]

Don't reverse the situation again.
The real question is: who ask Putin for help in Ukraine? Not Zelensky. Not the Ukrainians. Not even the separatists in Donbass. There was no threat to Russia from Ukraine.
So, all in all, what gave the right to Putin to invade Ukraine?

[Mithradates]

Marianna Podgurskaya, the Instagram star who became the face of Mariupol bombing, has her baby

Beauty blogger Ms Podgurskaya has now given birth to a baby girl, according to reports in Ukraine. It has been reported that both mother and child are healthy, but remain in the encircled city of Mariupol near the Black Sea.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

She is an actress! Western trickery, they dont fool me!

[Ludicus]

Mearsheimer demystifies the conventional wisdom applied to the causes of conflict,

Causes of the Conflict. Conventional Wisdom-I

-Vladimir Putin is the main cause.
-Putin is crazy or irrational.
-Putin is bent on creating a greater Russia
-Putin bears marked resemblance to Hitler

Causes of the Conflict:Conventional Wisdom-II

-US is a benign hegemony seeking to promote European stability.
-Putin’s behavior proves that it was wise to expand NATO eastward, to try including Ukraine and Georgia.
-Any concession to Putin is Munich October 1938.

Mearsheimer: “The Midas touch in reverse”

“ (...) we’re incapable of blaming ourselves because we never do anything wrong. You all know that all the problems in the world are caused by everybody else never by the United States because we’re a benign hegemony.
Well, if we are the good guys and they’re the bad guys and they are bent on creating a greater Russia oh my god this is the 1930’s all over again.
Can’t do that so what you do is double down. You get tougher and tougher, then this brings the question of whether we can succeed or not. My argument is, you’re playing a losing hand, and the reason you are playing a losing hand is because this is a competition between economic considerations an security conditions.
The basic mindset of the people in the west is that you can punish the Russians economically and they will throw their hands up.My argument is-when security considerations are at stake, when core strategic interests are at stake- and no question ladies and gentleman in Russia’s cause this is a core strategic interest- countries will suffer enormously before they throw their hands up.So you can inflict lot of pain on the Russians and they are not going to quit, because Ukraine matters to them.
And by the way Ukraine doesn’t matter to us, Ukraine is not a vital interest for the west. It is a vital strategic interest for the Russians, they have made that perfectly clear, and not just Putin.So in terms of balance of resolve it’s all on their side.

Let’s assume that I’m wrong. Let’s assume that we are playing a winning hand, and that we are capable of backing Putin into a corner and we are getting close to pushing them off a cliff. Is this good? you’re a talking about a country that got thousands of nuclear weapons, and the only circumstance really under which states use nuclear weapons is when they are desperate, when they think their survival is at stake. So, what you are talking is about putting Putin in a situation where he is desperate. Because he’s making clear that you’re fooling around with his core strategic interests. So you are putting yourself in a position where you are willing to risk a possible nuclear war over a piece of real estate that is not a vital strategic interest to the United States.
Again, it’s not a vital strategic interest to us. By the way, this will be my final point on this, what’s is truly amazing about all of this is that we are talking about incorporating Ukraine into NATO, when we have now acknowledged that by not taking military action over Ukraine it’s not a vital interest.
You understand that when you incorporate Ukraine into NATO you are giving them an article 5 guarantee which says you will come to their defense if they are attacked.
You only give article 5 guarantees to countries that are a vital strategic interest, like German during the cold war.
Giving a an article 5 guarantee to a country that is not a vital strategic interest it just shows how discombobulated american foreign policy is, and of course the Ukraine crisis is just one of many messes that we have made. As you know, we have the Midas touch in reverse.There is nothing we do that doesn’t go south of Afghanistan, Iraq,Lybia, Ukraine. I could go on”.

-----
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Mário Soares, who saved this country in 1975 from becoming a communist paradise, wrote in 2008, at the age of 83: “NATO, surrounding Russia and installing missile bases in Poland and the Czech Republic, is beginning to be a threat to Russia that could make it aggressive” He criticized the Atlantic Alliance for being "doing damage in other regions of the world, Caucasus, Caspian and Black Sea areas and countries bordering Western Russia."
And he pointed the finger at Dick Cheney, who, "at the end of his term, made a recent, highly destabilizing visit to give, on behalf of NATO, support to Georgia”. He concluded: "NATO, created as a defensive organization at the beginning of the cold war, is becoming a threat to peace”.

[bitterhowl]

Don't reverse the situation again.
The real question is: who ask Putin for help in Ukraine? Not Zelensky. Not the Ukrainians. Not even the separatists in Donbass. There was no threat to Russia from Ukraine.
So, all in all, what gave the right to Putin to invade Ukraine?

It's my turn to ask you to explain your statement. Donbass residents didn't ask for help?

Ukraine armed by NATO and trained by NATO and provided common military maneuvers with NATO and bloody pranking on Russian language in the country with large Russian diaspora and continuous threatening to Donbass and Crimea? And Russian post Soviet gas transporting system which is actually is a hostage of Ukrainian regime? No threats at all.

I said thanks for correct response and I'd be thankful for substantial discussion.

Here is today's Borrell interview
https://www.azerbaycan24.com/en/borr...o-was-mistake/

Marianna Podgurskaya, the Instagram star who became the face of Mariupol bombing, has her baby

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

She is an actress! Western trickery, they dont fool me!

Long live to the baby and mother.

"Madonna of Gorlovka" a.k.a. "smashed colorad female" also had a child. And on that photo she is with child too.

[EmperorBatman999]

Mário Soares, who saved this country in 1975 from becoming a communist paradise, wrote in 2008, at the age of 83: “NATO, surrounding Russia and installing missile bases in Poland and the Czech Republic, is beginning to be a threat to Russia that could make it aggressive” He criticized the Atlantic Alliance for being "doing damage in other regions of the world, Caucasus, Caspian and Black Sea areas and countries bordering Western Russia."
And he pointed the finger at Dick Cheney, who, "at the end of his term, made a recent, highly destabilizing visit to give, on behalf of NATO, support to Georgia”. He concluded: "NATO, created as a defensive organization at the beginning of the cold war, is becoming a threat to peace”.

They aren't Missile Bases. The military instillations proposed by the US are ICBM defense sites. They have limited offensive capability and are intended to protect Europe from nuclear attack. And you know what? When Putin threatened to glass the earth if they interfered in Ukraine, the need for such bases was absolutely vindicated. The US, UK, and France never threatened to nuke Russia, but here is Putin, brandishing his ICBMs and threatening to kill all of humankind if he doesn't get his way with his retrograde expansionist bull-.

The international Left from your Soares to Chris Hedges have repeated contorted the facts of the Aegis Ashore project's purpose and made it into an act of American warmongering. Who wins from this? Boo-hoo, Russia can't destroy all the cities they wanted to destroy if they decided to do something unthinkable. Does the Left like the possibility that several million more lives will be lost if Aegis wasn't built and Putin hit the button? I thought the Left was all about saving as many lives as possible, with the whole thing during the Covid pandemic where left-leaning leaders stood beside all lockdown measures, arguing it was worth it to say even one single life.