ישוע הוא האלוהים האמיתי היחיד ואני אוהבת אותו
That does not answer my question
"imagine the all-perfect, all-knowing, absolutely just and pure being,"
Justify the fate Jericho at the hands this just pure being. or cut it out of the bible as mistake.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
conon394,
Why does Jericho bother you so much? My understanding is that Jericho appeared to be the key to the Holy Land , its people holding sway over the other cities and so as they followed a false god their fate was sealed. Just before that though over some forty years God saw to it that the Israelites who had spurned Him were made to die never to see the Land and their number I would suggest was much larger than those in Jericho. So, one can see and read that His justice applies to everyone regardless of nation.
When your god is basically just a bobblehead that nods in agreement with whatever you're into, that's a pretty good sign that your god is made up. Your worship of "Freyja" is obviously just a mask for self-worship.
On the other hand, the God of the Bible radically challenges and transforms us. This is actually one of the proofs of Christianity's divine origin.
Originally Posted by Arthur W. Pink, The Attributes of GodOriginally Posted by C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
Ignore List (to save time):
Exarch, Coughdrop addict
If your evangelical sect demands nothing more from you than praying and visiting sunday mess regularily instead of giving your wealth away to care for the poor and living a poor, simple life like Jesus and the first Apostles than your sect is clearly made up for casual "christians".
You don't get me with shallow talk without any innerlight or wisdom from some US preachers.
Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; April 04, 2022 at 02:34 PM.
Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
And tomorrow you'll be on your way
Don't give a damn about what other people say
Because tomorrow is a brand-new day
Look that's a little rude. One can make ill willed statements about Christians too, such as "YHWH is a male God who designates women as unclean" who hurt you God?
Likewise YHWH demands mutilation and tithing. Is it a mask for self harm addicts, and scammers?
YHWH tells his people to murder babies (1 Samuel 15:3), and commands a literal holocaust (Deuteronomy 20 passim). He even gives instructions as to how to cleanse the guilt of shedding innocent blood (Deuteronomy 21:8). I guess killing innocent babies and pregnant women is fairly transformative.
Straight up mockery of another faith is a hurtful and divisive game. We are on a history forum so I assume you know our Christian ancestors slaughtered and raped along with the rest of the religions and anti religions.
People approach the divine as best they can. If you turn it into a slanging match? That's not approaching the divine, that's just bickering.
I am sure Freyja has some text or doctrine to discuss, and if its hypocritical or stupid then point that out. I happily point out when someone's claims about scripture or reality seem illogical.
If you're right and your faith shows you this, why argue?
Jatte lambastes Calico Rat
Making a semite from Galilea look like a swedish beach model obviously has nothing to do with masking one's self-worship.
Many things can radically challenge and transform us. Do you have a personal example to "prove your proof" or do we just have to take your word for it?
The obvious contradictions of the Christian God, vengeful and violent and yet just and full of love, simply prove it is nothing more than another flawed human construct.An ineffably holy God, who has the utmost abhorrence of all sin, was never invented by any of Adam’s fallen descendants.
CS Lewis was a great writer of fables. A shame some of them are taken so seriously.
Argument is justification and supplication to ego.
God of the Bible offers a coercive control mechanism for temporal power. And now that there is a separation of state from belief, that control mechanism is largely gaslighting. Buying into that societal management framework means accepting that one's own thoughts and actions must be moderated significantly more than those of us who do not buy into this framework. That's an ego hit.
The defensive argument that is waged against non-believers of this or any belief, is as much a self-affirmation process as it is about the legitimacy of that belief system.
That, and it's an opportunity for some ineffective proselytising.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM
The good thing of the neopagan approach is, that we have no scripture, as there is no gallic, belgic or germanic holy book. We have only some archaelogic evidence at some springs, rivers, lakes, groves, mighty trees. And the dates of some festivals around sun solstices.
So you are relative free in your religious practice and for me its a prayer at some for me inspiring place. Some places or trees have this aura, you feel simple the mystique and magic of this place.
And i like my personal prayers and beliefs.
And yes i have read the whole bible, but it didn't speak to me. And i largely disliked the OT, especially the annihilation of whole caanite cities, especially that one city, where the whole population converted to Jahwe, but the Hebrews slaughtered the whole population after the men of the city lay down weakened by circumcision. That was too malignant cowardice for me.
Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; April 04, 2022 at 05:36 PM.
Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
And tomorrow you'll be on your way
Don't give a damn about what other people say
Because tomorrow is a brand-new day
I suppose because first a flat out myth easily disprovable by archeology... But second and far more important is that it is a gruesome unnecessary genocide and I suppose I am equality horrified you are nonplussed by it (be it real or just a national fiction)Why does Jericho bother you so much?
So again did not happen no evidence so just a just so story and that makes it worse. Not the action of as state fighting a total war for 15 or 20 years in where both sides have driven themselves to the lowest common denominator on non humanity... But no we just instant genocide everything including animals . That is absolutely nonsensical. Is also gross because at best Jericho if had existed as more than almost not visible village without walls at the time but the propaganda in the Bible would have be some for type of either Monarchy or Oligarchy ruled by aristocrats. That means the decision it made would have excluded most men, all women, slaves and any second class residents and last I checked livestock never gets a vote oh and children because they so got say in denying a bunch free loaders their land and saying bugger off this is our home.
I just am really surprised you can be chill with a brutal god and than claim he is so soft and comforting. Hey after the walls fell maybe Jesus could have appeared than and given the residents the option to repent or something , but err no.
No offer to repent hear the truth etc. Thus a blood soaked gruesome god.and so as they followed a false god their fate was sealed
Last edited by conon394; April 04, 2022 at 07:25 PM.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
conon394,
Because archeologists can easily disprove its existence, how? You're annoyed with a God who doesn't exist who destroyed a city that never existed and you want me to cry over that? Come on man if you have to argue make your arguments consistent.
I am consistent as DavibBN pointed out. Its a key point where the fact sow the bible simply wrong. But as more importantly allowing taking the bible at its word its a horrific story and certainly is not one that suggests a loving or merciful god. Moreover that people you basics are nonplussed by the
Umm no archeological backing for the story. Aside from the fact that there is no evidence for a sudden arrival of a migration of peoples as biblical described the simple Jericho was tiny and had to walls to fall. It is clearly the propaganda of a later era when Jericho was actually a town/city not just an un walled village. In fact a it was previously a modest walled town but to early for matching the story.how
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
I think this is a bit cynical. The faithful Christian is constantly overwhelmed by his own fallibility in the knowledge of God’s eternal perfection, and yet also by his duty to be a living witness of eternal salvation to his fellow men, as Jesus was. I can tell you from experience there are few terrors in life more grim than the fear of dying in sin. A premature demise in righteousness is categorically preferable since the whole point of the Christian life is to prepare for death anyway.
Originally Posted by Matthew 5Originally Posted by I John 2It’s unsurprising this might create some need to find ways to reassure himself of his own eternal position, and that can sometimes manifest in an abrasive didactic certainty. I try to be grateful I was able to see my way clear while I’m young enough for it to matter. I look at my dad and I feel bewildered on his behalf; religion is all he has left in life and he simply avoids any information that conflicts with that lifestyle because the alternative is to admit he is approaching old age having lived his entire adult life based on incorrect assumptions. I suspect many find themselves in such a position.Originally Posted by Matthew 7
Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII
It's fair to label my view cynical.
But I could also point my cynicism towards the idea that a doctrine's purpose is to prepare one for death (or the next life). As evidenced by all kinds of approaches towards the afterlife by all kinds of religions. A faith that helps one prepare for what happens after their death is a form of coercion that can be used to further temporal aims by the keepers of that faith, or that faith's in-group.
The idea that this life is just the first stage or a preparation for more plays on the selfish ego. I want to live forever, and be rewarded for living a 'good life'. A subjectively 'good life' and a subjectively 'good death' are excellent mechanisms for social control. I don't dispute that beliefs are genuine and earnest. But I would argue that earnest belief is an excellent form of social control, and at worst, abuse.
To find oneself at the end of one's dedicated life, with the realisation that so much time and energy has been wasted on a belief that might not actually grant salvation must be torture. So I entirely understand why that might lead to dissonance. And I wouldn't judge someone for avoiding that dissonance at all costs. We all live by community codes and standards. Whether they be religious or not. I don't go and shoot my neighbour when I'm annoyed with them. In some respects the source of legitimacy of our social codes could be considered irrelevant. Ukrainians and Russians aren't killing each other because they're seeking heavenly salvation through crusade. So I don't think religions are uniquely guilty of being a framework through which societies can abuse.
Last edited by antaeus; April 05, 2022 at 09:48 PM.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM
antaeus,
The whole point of us being here is to fulfill God's purpose for us. The very fact that Jesus Christ came into this world as a man thus fulfilling the prophecies made from the very beginning of time, doing all the supernatural things He did is proof that mankind needs a Saviour more than he'll ever know until that event takes place and of course I'm talking of new life, being born again. I am not controlled, rather guided by God that I should lack nothing the day He calls me out of this world.
Dodged my question there basics. So you are absolutely chill with genocide against people given no offer of a chance to repent or see the light even to those who had no personal choice in their situation? And when the saving of the prostitute says that could have happened. Your god is brutal and cruel and hypocritical and capricious.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites
'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'
But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.
Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
I agree one could call Christianity anthropocentric and that moral codes need not be religious, but I think a characterization as abusive or coercive misses the point. One wouldn’t consider the concept of law and order inherently abusive, for example. The struggle between what Christianity calls spirit and flesh is intuitive to the human experience. We know we shouldn’t eat unhealthy food, do drugs or get away certain things just because no one is watching. We know that because we know what the consequences could be. Does that mean we are abusing ourselves when we refrain from doing something we might very much want to do? I would think not. Self indulgence and corruption is human; so too is the desire for self-denial in pursuit of better outcomes. As Jesus said, what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? It’s a rational trade off we make every single day. What Christianity offers is a systematic approach.
Granted, not everything is useful. A 2500 year old moral code is bound to develop odd habits. Proverbs says, “Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” Though I’m no longer religious, I refused a Buddha statue from my mother in law because I’m apprehensive about having pagan idols in my house. I still get nervous if I forget to capitalize “God.” Whenever people I care about mock him, I still silently plead for mercy for them - just in case. Whenever I’m confronted with a difficult personal choice, I still turn to the Bible.
And yet, self-restraint is civilization itself, warts and all. We can replace the cross with the rainbow flag and the church with the hedonist night clubs, we can gain the whole world and say we are thereby ending an abuse. But just like the leaders of a church, those who have presided over this change must own the consequences for good or ill. I’m not convinced the idolatry of self can ever satisfy the innate human desire to be free from that self, regardless of whether or not God or gods have anything to do with it. Therefore, the pursuit of mastery of self is not abusive, it is self-indulgence which is more often abusive and harmful.
Spoiler for Favorites from Ecclesiastes:
Last edited by Legio_Italica; April 06, 2022 at 10:10 AM.
Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII
conon394,
From the fall of Adam and Eve mankind has known what to expect if he or she continues to disobey or disbelieve God. Noah brought that truth with him and his family out of the flood yet it didn't take long for his offspring to fall into the same old danger by inventing their own gods. Man cannot repent of his own volition because repentance can only happen at God's will for any person and even then brought to the situation where he or she realizes how offensive to God they have become. God knows you better than you know yourself and it is He Who has set the rules for you to follow. Therefore, how is He all that you have called Him?
Its a pretty simple argument, Bible says God is good, just, and loving. God approves of ripping open pregnant women and exterminating tribes. So its a fair question, is ripping open babies and exterminating whole tribes is good?
Yes or no, no near death or conversion experiences here, just a straight question needing a straight answer.
Jatte lambastes Calico Rat