Feedback

[Musashi]

Oh, and the barbarians. If you are rescinning them please make them look like in RTR.
I don't meen exactly like in RTR but the feel of them could be more like in the movie Gladiator. Hairy, violent, mad and ready for the slaughter.

Someshort of weird bug is in the diplomatic system. I often go to a war with some faction and say... take a city from them. Then I attack another city of the same faction and suddenly they where neutral again???
With free people this seems like realistick if the city is not controlled by the same tribe, but with a real faction it seems weird.
It happened to me with playing Romans and attacking Greeck, Epirus and Cyracuse.

About the recruiting system again. I ussually paly with Rome and recruit two armyes of the same legion so that I have for example I repuplick legions x 2.
Totally 4000 troops. Then I use them together as it would be one legion. at the time of the new repulick legions and Marian reforms I usually wind up having half beaten I and II repuplick legions wich is a shame. Tehy end up beeing some short of mixed legions to guard the Italian pennisula against rebel armyes.
It would be really great if it would be possiple to update your troops in to new cind of legions by retraining them.

[dvk901]

First, recruiting a General and having a whole Legion appear would require a script, map modifications, etc. (Field of Mars, I think Res Gestae called it). And we will be very 'lean' about using scripts. They slow the game down, and we will probably only use them to generate various events. Besides, with '0' turn recruitment, you can recruit a whole Legion in two turns.....actually, a year to gather a Legion, train and equip them is pretty realistic.

Diplomacy in RTW is 'useless'...as most describe it, and weird. The Mod has nothing to do with it, it's just the RTW engine doing it's weird thing different every campaign you play.

Retraining the Old Legions and having them magically turn into a newer Legion is impossible, unfortunately. Best thing is to 'disband' them in a city where you CAN build new Legions, and recruit them again as the new Legionarys.

[Globalhead]

The Free People, in whatever form they come, are a major obstacle to easy expansion. That was their purpose, and I'm glad to hear it has finally worked the way I intended.

They certainly have . The Free Peoples armies in northern Italy cost me a total of probably 2 1/2 Legions, including one fully destroyed. But it looks to me that they give the ai as many headaches as us. Once I conquered Italy proper (not including Sicily) around 268-267 b.c., I took about 7-8 years, didn't raise armies and built up Italian infrastructure. I actually bribed the last 2 full stacks of Liguri rebels in northern Italy, rather than fight them...hehe. The fact that no one attacked me during that time, except for a few smallish rebel army pop ups...tells me the expansion of all nations in the early game is slow.

The year is now 257 b.c., my 4 legion invasion of Sicily will be a swift victory. (Syracuse burnt itself out fighting Carthage/Free Peoples and taking Melite, Syracuse has seige up at both Carthage cities on Sicily as my legions just seiged Syracusan cities) So hopefully, Syracuse takes both, gets depleted, and I run over Sicily without having to declare on Carthage.

As for what else I see on the map...Gaul is running rampant...Epirus is crushing Macedon(after I kicked em out of Italy, they sued for peace)...Greek Cities going back in forth with free peoples in southern Greece...Carthage was losing to Syracuse...and Free Peoples hold everything due north of Italy, I mean everything to the Baltic, and all of Illyria.

So, it seems the Free Peoples are working as intended .

[Musashi]

First, recruiting a General and having a whole Legion appear would require a script, map modifications, etc. (Field of Mars, I think Res Gestae called it). And we will be very 'lean' about using scripts. They slow the game down, and we will probably only use them to generate various events. Besides, with '0' turn recruitment, you can recruit a whole Legion in two turns.....actually, a year to gather a Legion, train and equip them is pretty realistic.

Diplomacy in RTW is 'useless'...as most describe it, and weird. The Mod has nothing to do with it, it's just the RTW engine doing it's weird thing different every campaign you play.

Retraining the Old Legions and having them magically turn into a newer Legion is impossible, unfortunately. Best thing is to 'disband' them in a city where you CAN build new Legions, and recruit them again as the new Legionarys.

Thankyou for swift answer. So it's basicly: Dream on buddy.
Well maybe in Rome mod for MTW2

I wont dispand my bettlehardened repuplican legions and trade them in green post Marian legions for any prise. I'll just pretend theyre praetorian.

[rory o'kane]

there are Veteranii units for a reason. and the legions are hardly green! they come with at least 2 experience each!

[talc]

Best mod for RTW ever. End of story.

[dominic]

Huge
Vh/Vh

This isnt recommended and I highly doubt you will ever go far. Youll lose battles left and right and soon die. But than agian if your good enough than by all means, I step aside.

I always play on this settings and there are no any problem BTW I try to play by your recommendations about content of legion... and many guys who I know play this way - and THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS... I think just this fact is PROBLEM, 'cause vh/vh whith huge - must be impossible level...

It's not a boasting but regular mention about legioner's stats - the question that was arised by some guys (including me) before...

[Deus ret.]

After playing this AWESOME mod for almost two entire days I have some questions/suggestions/observations....don't know if this is due to patch10 but anyway:

- temples seem to be somewhat imbalanced. e.g. the temple of Zeus bestows huge benefits on city order and units, whereas other temples (notably Hermes) persist with no unit bonus at all and a considerably lower city order bonus.

- none of the Athenian/Rhodian/Cretian/Corinthian etc. hoplites can form phalanx, with the exception of Spartans IIRC - is this intentional? regular hoplites and armoured ones can form phalanx and generally hoplites don't fight too well w/o either phalanx or BI's shield wall.....well, they do quite a lot of damage but die like flies.

-some lower level units disappear from the list of available units once high-level barracks are built (Greek Cities).

- Roman hastati don't benefit from any exp bonus from upgraded barracks, in contrast to principes and triarii who do.

-highest level stables in Babylonia make elephants and war elephants unrecruitable for the SE, only armoured ones were still available.

-cappadocian lancers kill any cataphract (and any other cav) in a 1-1 matchup, is this intended, too?

-money is quite abundant in the mod, and for most factions it's no problem to finance some good-quality stacks and simultaneously keep on improving infrastructure.

[tone]

Thanks for all the helpful feedback.

The lack of phalanx for hoplite units (esp more elite ones) is intentional, and has been answered before. The problem with putting into phalanx is that the soldiers then just go wandering up to the enemy rather than charging, which really takes a lot of the enjoyment out. The stats are such that they don't die like flies, or at least shouldn't.

The intention is that some of the lower level units disappear from rosters as you upgrade. This is to try and force the AI to build more and more challenging armies, rather than stacks of cannon fodder.

I don't think the cappadocian lancers are intended to kill cataphracts. They should certainly be strong though.

Is there too much money?

[Deus ret.]

Thanks for the reply!

The lack of phalanx for hoplite units (esp more elite ones) is intentional, and has been answered before. The problem with putting into phalanx is that the soldiers then just go wandering up to the enemy rather than charging, which really takes a lot of the enjoyment out. The stats are such that they don't die like flies, or at least shouldn't.

You're right, not altogether like flies, but rather quickly ...for a phalanx unit, I mean. But if it's intended all's fine....then maybe phalanx should be taken away from other short-spear hoplites? Or the next version of RS should incorporate the shield wall, a surprisingly good replacement for phalanx on such units?

The intention is that some of the lower level units disappear from rosters as you upgrade. This is to try and force the AI to build more and more challenging armies, rather than stacks of cannon fodder.

I don't think the cappadocian lancers are intended to kill cataphracts. They should certainly be strong though.

I ran a few tests and ...well, they're not as devastating as I stated first but IIRC they are the best cavalry stat-wise, most notably in defence where they outshine even cats by 4 points.

Is there too much money?

maybe a little....at least it's now possible to bribe the occasional stack, something almost impossible since 1.2/1.3. but I still have to play past 260BC to see how it works out in the long run. Up to now, I'm getting insanely rich even as the Iberians.
On the other hand, defeating those x000 stacks of free people will require way more troops than I thought....so it's good to have some breathing space on the financial side of things

[Vangelis]

Yes, concerning the temples: if you play romans u can build Temple of Juno (+2exp), urban barracks (+2exp) and that building to educate people, like scriptorium (+3exp)=====> all of this together makes u spam roman Legions with atleast 7 exp!!

Is this intentional?

[dvk901]

After playing this AWESOME mod for almost two entire days I have some questions/suggestions/observations....don't know if this is due to patch10 but anyway:

DVK: Thanks!

- temples seem to be somewhat imbalanced. e.g. the temple of Zeus bestows huge benefits on city order and units, whereas other temples (notably Hermes) persist with no unit bonus at all and a considerably lower city order bonus.

DVK: Hard to balance these. If I had my way there would only be one for all.

- none of the Athenian/Rhodian/Cretian/Corinthian etc. hoplites can form phalanx, with the exception of Spartans IIRC - is this intentional? regular hoplites and armoured ones can form phalanx and generally hoplites don't fight too well w/o either phalanx or BI's shield wall.....well, they do quite a lot of damage but die like flies.

DVK: Being worked on a debated

-some lower level units disappear from the list of available units once high-level barracks are built (Greek Cities).

DVK: Like Tone said

- Roman hastati don't benefit from any exp bonus from upgraded barracks, in contrast to principes and triarii who do.

DVK: Hastati were the youngest 'green' troops Rome could recruit. They had no experience, so they don't ever get any unless they gain it by fighting.

-highest level stables in Babylonia make elephants and war elephants unrecruitable for the SE, only armoured ones were still available.

DVK: Please name a faction

-cappadocian lancers kill any cataphract (and any other cav) in a 1-1 matchup, is this intended, too?

DVK: Angel can look into this.

-money is quite abundant in the mod, and for most factions it's no problem to finance some good-quality stacks and simultaneously keep on improving infrastructure.

DVK: Playing as Rome, I have 'enough' to give me a variety of decisions. But I guess it depends on what some people consider 'too much' or 'too little'.
Please name the faction that has this issue, and I can make adjustments.

[dvk901]

Yes, concerning the temples: if you play romans u can build Temple of Juno (+2exp), urban barracks (+2exp) and that building to educate people, like scriptorium (+3exp)=====> all of this together makes u spam roman Legions with atleast 7 exp!!

Is this intentional?

Dang, in my Roman campaign on H\H if my Legions weren't experienced I'd be getting my arse kicked off the map. I don't know.....I think currently the Romans are overmatched considering the opposition they face. Either that, or I'm a crummy player

[Vangelis]

Well, i'm not against the exp bonuses. If all factions can get them its good, but i'd say reduce exp for all factions, so that your armies can gain experience in battle.

[dvk901]

OK, I will look into that.

[Deus ret.]

Yes, I think taking away the exp bonus from academy buildings would probably be a good thing because they're damn cheap and give +3exp on max level (plus they retain their normal use as academies), whereas temples are at least expensive and take a while to be constructed.
As it is now, if I recruit Athenian hoplites they gain +4 exp from maxed barracks IIRC, +2 from the pantheon of Zeus and another +3 from the Ludus Magna....which adds up to a maximum experienced unit upon recruitment!

The faction I was referring to in Babylonia was the SE or Seleucid Empire, as I mentioned in my previous post.

Good point about the Hastati, but why would anyone recruit them now? Compared to 2 or 3xp Principes they're not really convincing.

Temples may be balanced e.g. by taking away a large chunk of the order bonus from temples which bestow experience. If you want I can try my best in the next couple of days and send you a draft. In general I like the different boni available from different deities, so one temple for all isn't necessarily the best option (as well as RTR where temples differ only in the kind of ancillary they can give to a character).

BTW there was a faction which, among others, had a "temple to the unknown god" which only had 3 levels....was it forgotten? I'll look up the faction....

EDIT: Oh, it's Rome...! Should be intended, then. But there are several other minor issues:

-Armenia: Temple of Anahit has a pantheon (other 2 temples don't) and it's named 'pantheon of fun'. Maybe this is deliberate?
-Ptolemaics: On highest-level barracks, suddenly Phalanx Pikemen become available w/ 4exp. Shouldn't they also appear on lower levels? It isn't too bad in any way: They differ from Elite Pike only in nuisances.
-Romans: On urban barracks, only Roman light infantry with 5 exp is recruitable....so I guess this building shouldn't be constructed before the Marian Reforms?

[dvk901]

It was the Romans. And sure, if you'd like to work on making the temple bonuses better I'd appreciate it.

[ThirdMan]

Awesome mod, but a couple of issues with the Romans:

1. Roman Vicarius (sp) have praetorian guards as his bodyguards. During battle, they start holding their pilum upside down with the tip pointed downwards. Not sure if this is intentional or not...

2. Legionary Calvary still have shield and spear of missile auxila. They are 3-4 missile spears clearly seen behind the shield. Furthermore, they are holding the spear upside down with the spear pointed downwards. I think this was also mentioned before patch 10 came out.

OVerall, awesome mod, probably one of the best in the RTW community.

[Deus ret.]

Some more observations:

Generally, the governors' buildings follow a somewhat strange course. Up to lvl 3, the law bonus stands at 20%, at lvl 4 it drops to 15% and rises again to 25 or 30% on lvl5.
Similarly, the pop.growth bonus of traders shrinks in the course of the levels, although the regularity of this decline suggests that it is deliberate.

The Pontic temple of Heracles bestows a penalty to law equal to the bonus of happiness on the respective level.

- Carthage:
# why can I recruit elephants in Spain (eastern province)?
# Sacred Band cav is rather weak stat-wise, and along with sacred band infantry it can be recruited anywhere ('Citizens of Carthage'?)

Thanks for the feed-back.

[dominic]

After installing patch 10, is there oppotunity to run night battle?