Bactrian Hypaspistai Bug in 1.9 ?

[Corelias]

Why are there there only 40 men in the hypaspistai unit with 1 hit point? The unit is half the size of the Agema unit, costs more and the stats are not that much better. Shouldn't they have at least 60 or 80 men or 2 HP?

[florin80]

First of all you have to say on what unit size level you are playing. Large, huge? I remmeber Marcus was experimenting with reducing the multi hp for all the units but the spartans and increase their defense instead by 50% without increasing their numbers. Multi HP tends to unbalance the game it appears, but I don`t know if he implemented it in the vanilla RTRPE v1.9. By any chance do you also have a mini mod installed on top?

[Corelias]

I play with large unit numbers (results in Pezoi 120, Agema 80, Hypaspistai 40).
export_descr_unit.txt shows the following for Agema
type bactrian agema
dictionary rtr_bactria_agema
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Medium_1
soldier bactrian_agema, 40, 0, 1
attributes sea_faring,hide_forest,command,can_sap,hardy
formation 0.9, 1, 2, 2, 6,square,phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 11, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 , 0.4
stat_pri_attr spear,long_pike, spear_bonus_8
stat_sec 8, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 , 0.3
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 9, 17, 6, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 5
stat_ground -8, 0, -16, 0
stat_mental 17, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 0
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 920, 520, 104, 112, 800
ownership thrace

and the following for Hypaspistai:
type bactrian swords
dictionary rtr_bactria_swordsmen
category infantry
class light
voice_type Light_1
soldier bactrian_swordsmen, 20, 0, 1
mount_effect horse -2, camel -2,
attributes sea_faring,hide_improved_forest,hide_long_grass,can_sap,hardy
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 3,square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 14, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 , 0.3
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 24, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 25 , 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 7, 22, 8, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 5
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 21, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 1142, 601, 104, 112, 1000
ownership thrace

so Hypaspistai have +5 defence, +3 atttack, + 4 morale, cost 222 more to build and 81 more upkeep at being halve the size.

I think it would be more balanced if there were 60 Hypaspistai (soldier bactrian_swordsmen, 30, 0, 1)

I am using 4tpy V1.9.6, Player formations and cognomen mod

[joerd9]

In 1.9 almost all the 2HP infantry units have been reduced to 1 HP while raising a few stats and cost. That means Hypaspists of whatever nationality are no longer Chuck Norris with excellent armour but what they're supposed to be: highly capable flanking infantry only. You shouldn't expect them to pwn everything on their own anymore.

[florin80]

According to some the biggest problem with multi HP was with the Ai because the game engine was autoresolving the battles involving multi HP units in one of the armies in an unbalanced way and so favored the factions having access to these.

[joerd9]

That's true. In autocalc battles they had the same effect as the egyptian chariot generals in vanilla. Plus virtually every greek faction tried to spam them. Main reason for the Macedonians and Seleucids to be so uber...

[Preskinn]

Still... 80 on huge is a bit small maybe they should be 120? and raise the cost a bit?

[Solon de Atenas]

In my game, (I play in huge) I put all units with 200 men the cavalry with 120 mens and the sarmatian and parthian archer cavalry with 160. The units have 1 point (except spartans, elephants, ....)

[joerd9]

Still... 80 on huge is a bit small maybe they should be 120? and raise the cost a bit?

I like them as they are atm. But you're free to do so, it's quite easy actually.