Pro-EU alliance leads poll in Serbia

[Војвода Драгутин Кесеровић]

Well, the communists just ordered the Bleiburg massacre, and killed Ante Pavelic... But if you by "answered for" mean some revange genocide against the Croats, then no, altough some of the things the SFRJ did against HUngerians and Germans after the war came close to beeing covered by that word...

Communists were certainly no "indians" - but don't forget that, even there were predominantly Serbs within the partisan ranks, their leader was a Croat and the entire leadership was ethnically very diverse.
So you can't say the post WW2 events were some kinda "the revenge of the Serbs"

You wouldn't bee content with the Deyton, even if you were a Bosnian Serb, the deyton means laughable admistrative borders, it means that someone who is a Serbs is more the likley to get beaten up in zenica, and someone who is a bosniak the same in banja luka.. thats what the dayton is, insane aparthaid, segregation in schools, ultra- nationalist and religous wachos forming organizations without the federal or RS government doing anything to stop it

Wackoes like Naser Oric? Wackoes like the Vahaabite extremists? Wackoes like the white Al-Quada guys who participated in Madrid attack?
Best to leave the entities borders be, they are at least some kinda protection for the Serbs against these "wackoes" - that's why we fought so hard to keep the locas police for ourselves.

As for the RS mooving forwards, it is not, just latley dodik took over, and he is somewhat more skilled then the insane ultra - nationalists that were before him, and RS passed the Federation in salary a few months back..... So now the RS, around the Banja Luka region [whilst the rest is ignored] is a tiny bit better of then the Federation..

I hear that ski-resorts near Pale are doing good buisnies, I hear that Trebinje is a nice place to live in, I hear that Bjieljina is peacefull.... all this from my friends from RS. You will understand if I take their word against your's - they live in those places while you live in the Federation...

But then again this is all based on spite, I doubt anyone would support any reasonable solution..

Dayton is the most reasonable solution...

As for the election in Serbia, will not Slobos Socialists loose some of their electorat no matter who they support? Perhaps there will be a new election, not that it matters...

Check out what I've posted earlier about their pro/con list - there are way too much con.'s with the DS...
How the things are moving so far, Tadic's bunch is gonna move to the oposition...

[VedranM]

Communists were certainly no "indians" - but don't forget that, even there were predominantly Serbs within the partisan ranks, their leader was a Croat and the entire leadership was ethnically very diverse.
So you can't say the post WW2 events were some kinda "the revenge of the Serbs"

I never said that, read it again. I said that the Partizans made the Ustasas and the Cetniks answer for their crimes, both Pavelic and Mihajlovic met their end, I disagree with a lot of the things done by the Partizans, like the etnich cleansing after ww2 of Italians HUngerians Germans etc, but I have no issues with scum like Pavelic and Mihajlovic meeting their ends like they did...

I find it desturbing that you deem it necessery to have a "revenge of the serbs", was it not enought that the NDH leadership was taken out?
Should a Bosniak consider it, that there should be a "revenge" for the near whiping out of us in the 90s war, that whould be taken out on ordinary civilians?...

Wackoes like Naser Oric? Wackoes like the Vahaabite extremists? Wackoes like the white Al-Quada guys who participated in Madrid attack?
Best to leave the entities borders be, they are at least some kinda protection for the Serbs against these "wackoes" - that's why we fought so hard to keep the locas police for ourselves

Naser Oric would more fit under the war profeteer category, if the things refugees from eastern bosnia said about him is true, wachoes like the wehabies, yes! I didn't know that white al - quida took part in the madrid train bombing, i tought all of them were arabs, but if true yes...
BUt also wachos like Ravnogorski CEtnicki pokret who beat up and kill Croats and Bosniaks who return to the RS, including familiy of mine, including Ustasas who do the same, inclduing ordinary bosniak nationalists who do such things...

I hear that ski-resorts near Pale are doing good buisnies, I hear that Trebinje is a nice place to live in, I hear that Bjieljina is peacefull.... all this from my friends from RS. You will understand if I take their word against your's - they live in those places while you live in the Federation...

Yeah, I hear that the fast food joint in Sarajevo is doing god busnies, I hear that Mostar is a nice place to live in, I hear that Kljuc is peacefull...

Their word against mine? I was talking about stats regarding the standard of living...

that's why we fought so hard to keep the locas police for ourselves

Yeah, most Bosniaks support the Vehabies, of cors, must be the reason... It has nothing to do with, that should there be a unifed police force the people going around beating people half to death vcouse of their last name would be behind bars...

Dayton is the most reasonable solution...

Yes, it is, I agree. The best solution is that Bosnia is devided into etnich Ghettoes, where the most important thing is if your a bosniak serb or croat, god forbid we should work together...

We should also made a "Republika madjar/hungarian" in half of vojvodina...
The siptars should get not only kosovo, but all of southern serbia, if what was the Republic of BiH can be etnich based ghettoes, why shouldn't the Republic of Serbia become Beo Pasaluk? We'll give the Vojvodina to Hungerians, and then Siptars can outbreed you and sell organs prostitues and "beli prah" in what remains of serbia... But the part with serbs stil in them can be ever so patriotic, wouldn't that be nice?

Check out what I've posted earlier about their pro/con list - there are way too much con.'s with the DS...
How the things are moving so far, Tadic's bunch is gonna move to the oposition...

from an outisde view it looks like both the radical block and the pro european block, and the socialists offer no solutions to anything what so ever...

If i was a Serbian I wouldn't have botthered to vote... I would have sought out ways to get a Green card, the same goes for beeing BOsnian..
Perhaps i would have voted against the EU block out of spite, for the loss of Montenegro, wich was somehow laughable, even in my opinion... and regarding Kosovo...

Yes, Tadic will most likley become the opposition now.... I dont see the SPS becomming pro EU, hell its all confusing, and they are a strange party to be honest...

[Војвода Драгутин Кесеровић]

I never said that, read it again. I said that the Partizans made the Ustasas and the Cetniks answer for their crimes, both Pavelic and Mihajlovic met their end, I disagree with a lot of the things done by the Partizans, like the etnich cleansing after ww2 of Italians HUngerians Germans etc, but I have no issues with scum like Pavelic and Mihajlovic meeting their ends like they did...

Nice try there, but you cannot possibly compare Pavelic to Mihajlovic....
Ante Pavelić - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On the other hand, Mihajlovic's YAF was an ally of both USA and UKDraža Mihailović - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I find it desturbing that you deem it necessery to have a "revenge of the serbs",

I must insist that you quote me on that. Otherwise don't don't distort my words, I never said anything like that.

from an outisde view it looks like both the radical block and the pro european block, and the socialists offer no solutions to anything what so ever...

Well, many people seem to think the same here, but I'd give them their 100days in power before criticising them, after all, "EU block" offered many solutions but they've all turned just empty promises...

If i was a Serbian I wouldn't have botthered to vote... I would have sought out ways to get a Green card, the same goes for beeing BOsnian..

Same wub - different continent. Unless you bring some serious cash with you.

Perhaps i would have voted against the EU block out of spite, for the loss of Montenegro, wich was somehow laughable, even in my opinion... and regarding Kosovo...

When it comes to their policy over Montenegro, it turns out that this "loss" was actually a "deliberate misplacement" - now they tried to misplace Kosovo the same way...

Yes, Tadic will most likley become the opposition now.... I dont see the SPS becomming pro EU, hell its all confusing, and they are a strange party to be honest...

They've managed to survive their persecution of the post 2000 period...
They're not that strange, they're just trying to get the most cake they can
It's actually pretty much what a normal party does.
If they play their cards right, they have a certain political future.

[VedranM]

Nice try there, but you cannot possibly compare Pavelic to Mihajlovic....
Ante Pavelić - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On the other hand, Mihajlovic's YAF was an ally of both USA and UKDraža Mihailović - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can in the eyes of the Croats and Slavic Muslims who were killed by them for no other reason.. I was talking about factors within the Balkans, I couldn't care less who they were allied to. I just know that Units of partizans, where most of the nembers were serbs gave up their lifes to save Bosniak and Croat civilians, whilst chetniks chopped of non serb civilians heads...
So naturally I am compering a faction dedicated to the destruction of bosniaks, to one that kills serb civlians..

I must insist that you quote me on that. Otherwise don't don't distort my words, I never said anything like that.

I know you never said it! I distorted them on perpus to be honest, but you reapeted that no one payed for Jasenovac etc etc whilst you had bleiburg...

Well, many people seem to think the same here, but I'd give them their 100days in power before criticising them, after all, "EU block" offered many solutions but they've all turned just empty promises...

They'll probably just sell of all of Serbias assets to the Russians, and other then that do nothing other then what Tadic and Kostunica have been doing, they will talk toughter tough, probably NIkolic giving a few speaches about how MIlosevic was soft for not killing us all, but thats about it

When it comes to their policy over Montenegro, it turns out that this "loss" was actually a "deliberate misplacement" - now they tried to misplace Kosovo the same way...

MonteNegro, honestly I don't see what the fuss is about...
I can't understand how ever that the Ortodoxies who speak our language maneged to form different nations, and now serbia is landlocked...

Same wub - different continent. Unless you bring some serious cash with you

. If you've got cash why leave Serbia, lol

Well, many people seem to think the same here, but I'd give them their 100days in power before criticising them, after all, "EU block" offered many solutions but they've all turned just empty promises...

In BOsnia Social - Democrats took over from the nationalists for a year, and nothing changed, after that no one votes for them, even if over half argee with their policies. Making BOsnia into a european social democratic welfare state and join the EU[only reasonable policy in my opinion], but just 54% vote, so they loose. ..

And the nationalists all have their traditional hillibilly voters, pluss votes out of spite, anger, and the frustration that Bosniaks were the only ones who became degraded into a Ghetto Nation after the BOsnian war... Just look at the etnich maps of BiH, and you'll know what I am talking about..

[Nestor Drake]

On the other hand, Mihajlovic's YAF was an ally of both USA and UKDraža Mihailović - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So was Stalin.

And so were Tito's partisans who were fighting Draza's Chetniks. So USA and UK must have had ONE wrong ally in the Balkans.

They've managed to survive their persecution of the post 2000 period...
They're not that strange, they're just trying to get the most cake they can
It's actually pretty much what a normal party does.
If they play their cards right, they have a certain political future.

I agree, they are just a regular party, they'll do what they think will benefit them most. Although, there is always the question of immediate pros (as in benefits from "foreign partners") versus long term cons (as in their voters getting screwed over and turning their votes to radicals/DSS)

[Војвода Драгутин Кесеровић]

They'll probably just sell of all of Serbias assets to the Russians, and other then that do nothing other then what Tadic and Kostunica have been doing, they will talk toughter tough, probably NIkolic giving a few speaches about how MIlosevic was soft for not killing us all, but thats about it

Don't expect any hate speeches from their behalf. They've pretty much straightened up their act, at least when it comes to PR

So was Stalin.
And so were Tito's partisans who were fighting Draza's Chetniks. So USA and UK must have had ONE wrong ally in the Balkans.

They were both very useful. Chetniks were active in rescue operations of RAF and USA pilots, but reluctant to preform large scale operations against Wermacht, cause of the German "100 Serb civilians for 1 German soldier" policy. So London initiated (and Stalin naturally supported) a switch to the Partisans (after the Tehran conference) ...
The juvenile Yugoslav king Petar was basically London's puppet, so he was compelled to sign a transfer of power to the communists after the war...

I agree, they are just a regular party, they'll do what they think will benefit them most. Although, there is always the question of immediate pros (as in benefits from "foreign partners") versus long term cons (as in their voters getting screwed over and turning their votes to radicals/DSS)

But there are also immediate cons. First of all a major rift in their ranks that would arise if they were to switch sides....
Anyway, the "patriotic" coalition will probably be officially announced by the end of the week - when it comes to the local level.
I think that the overall coalition is a done deal too.
It seems to me that they are only playing it step by step in order not to give "EU block" any manovaring space for pulling their act together and regrouping for reaction (institutional obstruction and inticing civil disobedience...)

[4th Regiment]

You wouldn't bee content with the Deyton, even if you were a Bosnian Serb, the deyton means laughable admistrative borders, it means that someone who is a Serbs is more the likley to get beaten up in zenica, and someone who is a bosniak the same in banja luka.. thats what the dayton is, insane aparthaid, segregation in schools, ultra- nationalist and religous wachos forming organizations without the federal or RS government doing anything to stop it

Hehe, now for you borders are stupid and nationalistic. So, why you separated from Yugoslavia on the first place? Hehe, confederal Yugoslavia with 38% of Serbs (declining in numbers) with all other constitutive nations having veto power would be terrible "Greater Serbia", but centralized Bosnia with no borders with 44% Muslims (increasing in numbers) would be perfect multicultural haven on Earth. Ohh yeahhh

[VedranM]

Hehe, now for you borders are stupid and nationalistic. So, why you separated from Yugoslavia on the first place? Hehe, confederal Yugoslavia with 38% of Serbs (declining in numbers) with all other constitutive nations having veto power would be terrible "Greater Serbia", but centralized Bosnia with no borders with 44% Muslims (increasing in numbers) would be perfect multicultural haven on Earth. Ohh yeahhh

Well Yugoslavia was not really around by the time Bosnia seperated from it in 1992, since ultra nationalist serb para military formations were singing "slobo send us salad there will be meat, we will butcher Croats" in the ruins of Vukovar... Brotherhood and Unity I guess huh?


On the other hand I never stated that I wanted a centralized Bosnia, just one without etnich based adminstrative units:hmmm:

44% Muslims (increasing in numbers)

??
all the peoples in BiH have a negative growth rate, more people die then beeing born. Bijela Kuga?

If you mean how serbs were the majority in BiH before 1960, then blame the colonization of Vojvodina.... If anything they were privlliged, they got good land, where as the Muslim by nation peasents remaind in BiH that is crappy compered to Vojvodina, regarding farming.

I am not here to talk about if a confederal yugoslavia would have been a good idea, most likley it would have.
But Yugoslavia had died already to be honest... You know, the non serb south slavs have as a pre condition for beeing in the same state as serbs, that the polecies and military of that state are not out to kill them.. This might sound strange I know, that all the other peoples took of after a "socialist" state all off a sudden had large scale nationalist serb rallies, ortodox priests, and the bones of medival kings beeing carried around...

I know you are going to use much of a same argument for why Serbs should leave BiH now, and by all means go ahead[given that the parts that seppareted would be represented by the 91' etnich make up the country], but don't quote me on anything I'm neighter a HOSovac or a vehabi..

And yes the borders within BiH are stupid and nationalistic, it would be like the HUngerian Republic of Vojvodina, and the Croats and their "flowers" taking over Uzice.... Poeple don't get punished for etnich violence, and everyone is obsessed with what you last name is, segregations in schools etc etc....

[Војвода Драгутин Кесеровић]

Well Yugoslavia was not really around by the time Bosnia seperated from it in 1992, since ultra nationalist serb para military formations were singing "slobo send us salad there will be meat, we will butcher Croats" in the ruins of Vukovar... Brotherhood and Unity I guess huh?

I think this hole conversation has way passed the point where you really need to post something to back up yr. bias overstatements....

On the other hand I never stated that I wanted a centralized Bosnia, just one without etnich based adminstrative units:hmmm:

,,,,that is to say, A Bosnia with a Muslim majority....
same wubb different foundation...

And yes the borders within BiH are stupid and nationalistic, it would be like the HUngerian Republic of Vojvodina, and the Croats and their "flowers" taking over Uzice.... Poeple don't get punished for etnich violence, and everyone is obsessed with what you last name is, segregations in schools etc etc....

Or like the Albanian Republic of Macedonia;
or like the Serbian Republic of Krajina, or like the Croatian Republic of Bosnia for that matter,,,,,,,
And can you state some cases of that segregation and illustrate them with some links?

[4th Regiment]

Well Yugoslavia was not really around by the time Bosnia seperated from it in 1992, since ultra nationalist serb para military formations were singing "slobo send us salad there will be meat, we will butcher Croats" in the ruins of Vukovar... Brotherhood and Unity I guess huh?

Vedran, Vedran, you posts are biased to the core even miss some basic logic. Yugoslavia was not around…so how came it was not around - Serbs were not going anywhere (separating) so somebody was separating (and blocking and sabotaging all federal institutions) in order to "Yugoslavia not being around" . And do not mix tame frame…war stared (in Vukovar too) after separatist movements took power...or you think all people here have very low IQ, so thay think that war stared, we wage it for a wile, and finaly some smart ass said – Hay, we are waging a war, this country is going nowhere lets separate . Argument that some Serbian soldiers were singing nationalistic songs...hehe every body had similar songs, tragic thing is that in Croatia guy named Tomson is still one of the most popular singers, last year he made concert in front of 50 000 people in Zagreb (there are plenty youtube videos). In Serbia and among Muslims I would say, those kind of "patriotic" singing is long gone, thank God

On the other hand I never stated that I wanted a centralized Bosnia, just one without etnich based adminstrative units:hmmm:

So…not a fog but a haze

all the peoples in BiH have a negative growth rate, more people die then beeing born. Bijela Kuga?

Even if Muslims have negative growth rate (which is not true), you had very bad marks in math. In relative ratio( % ) even it is true, they number is growing…unless "empty space" of negative growth rate is filed up with…let’s say, Chinese?

If you mean how serbs were the majority in BiH before 1960....

No, I never mention that, not meaing it, not driming about it, and how the hell you digged it out from your mind? Whole rest of your post is totally out of topic and more or less confusingly meaningless and not worth replaying

[VedranM]

I think this hole conversation has way passed the point where you really need to post something to back up yr. bias overstatements....

Vedran, Vedran, you posts are biased to the core even miss some basic logic. Yugoslavia was not around…so how came it was not around - Serbs were not going anywhere (separating) so somebody was separating (and blocking and sabotaging all federal institutions) in order to "Yugoslavia not being around" . And do not mix tame frame…war stared (in Vukovar too) after separatist movements took power...or you think all people here have very low IQ, so thay think that war stared, we wage it for a wile, and finaly some smart ass said – Hay, we are waging a war, this country is going nowhere lets separate . Argument that some Serbian soldiers were singing nationalistic songs...hehe every body had similar songs, tragic thing is that in Croatia guy named Tomson is still one of the most popular singers, last year he made concert in front of 50 000 people in Zagreb (there are plenty youtube videos). In Serbia and among Muslims I would say, those kind of "patriotic" singing is long gone, thank God

Perhaps you did not get my point. My response to your question “then why did you leave Yugoslavia” was as following. That the Yugoslavia that would be okey to all of the south Slavic peoples was not around anymore. Seen as in 1991, before the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina broke of from Yugoslavia, the city of Vukovar, that had been taken by the “Yugoslav” army now in it had ultra nationalist Serbian para military formations. Have you now gotten my point? That the Yugoslavia of the Tito era had already fallen apart, and existed only on paper? Further, regarding separatist faction getting electoral victory, if you aim to turn this into a “they all teamed up on the serbs” thread, I would like to remind you that Serbian nationalists cooperated with Bosniak and Croat nationalists in the elections, and I would also like to remind you that prior to these election. Inside of the Yugoslavia where supposedly we were all Slavic brothers, and did not let religion split us, there were mass rallies with ortodox priest, nationalist songs, and the bones of medival kings being carried around. So yes, the Yugoslavia that was created in with AVNOJ did not exist any longer!
The time that Bosniks and Serbs singing these songs has passed, are you even getting the election results from you own country as well as mine?

Even if Muslims have negative growth rate (which is not true), you had very bad marks in math. In relative ratio( % ) even it is true, they number is growing…unless "empty space" of negative growth rate is filed up with…let’s say, Chinese?

Total fertility rate
1.22 children born/woman (2006 est.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...ina#Birth_rate

A combined estimate is not available for Serbia and Montenegro or for West Bank and Gaza. Serbia's total fertility rate is 1.69 children born per woman (2007 est.);

http://www.globalhealthfacts.org/topic.jsp?i=70

Unfortunately the birth rate is extremely negative in Bosnia. The best would be to have a 2,01 so to keep the current population…
Hey at least you are ahead of us. But you are not doing to well either..
I am assuming that when you say “Muslim” you mean as in Bosniak, or Bosnian Muslim, used to describe a nation not a religious group, because I have no idea as to what the birth rate of the one billion followers of Islam around the world is..

No, I never mention that, not meaing it, not driming about it, and how the hell you digged it out from your mind? Whole rest of your post is totally out of topic and more or less confusingly meaningless and not worth replaying

I did not dig it out of my mind, I was assuming that this was what you were talking about, seen as it was somewhere in that time period that Bosniaks surpassed Serbs as BiHs most numerous group[if we are talking about the 1900s]. Partly because of the colonization of Vojvodina, and the fact that BiH was one of the poorest and more backword republics until the 70s when things evend out…
If this was not what you were talking about, then why on earth are you talking about Slavic Muslim by nation growth?


Total fertility rate
1.22 children born/woman (2006 est.)

,,,,that is to say, A Bosnia with a Muslim majority....
same wubb different foundation...

Okey, by that logic any suggestions that Serbia should be in a union, konfedration or what ever with any other Balkan state means that it will be Serb dominated and led by Cetniks..
I wonder if Vojvodina Serbs would be happy with some "madjarska republika" having half of Vojvodina, and people attack wach other over language.

Or like the Albanian Republic of Macedonia;
or like the Serbian Republic of Krajina, or like the Croatian Republic of Bosnia for that matter,,,,,,,
And can you state some cases of that segregation and illustrate them with some links?

I’m not going to bother googling any of this, the attacks the segregation, the anything
You do not need sources for that, just turn on your television. I hope you won’t have a hard time adjusting to the language. …

And when can we hope to hear who the SPS has made mates with, not that it matters. But it would spice up the thread....

[4th Regiment]

I will not discus this issue anymore with you since you are going totally out of topic as I previously said...Yes, we can discus about Vojvodina -huge area to discus, for few PhD thesis at least, also why Bosnia was more poor but not the poorest as you said-it was better than Montengero, Macedonia and Kosovo, but it is theme for another few PhD thesis.
PS. I was right; you really had bad marks in math. Fertility rate of Bosnia as a whole has nothing to do with relative ratio of Muslim population in Bosnia, which is increasing, unless some fourth nation (I have tried to be funny and said, Chinese, in order make you easier to understand primary school math) is filling the empty space of low fertility rate, so than Muslims would decrease in relative numbers. As far as I know there is no significant immigration in Bosnia of Chinese or any other nation

PSS. "...Serb dominated and led by Chetniks..." Save me this partisan movies crap about Cetniks (I guess all Serbs who have at least 1% of national identity for you are chetnicks?), older brother of my grandfather as Chetnik in western Serbia was captured and burned in Dahau 1943. It is 2008, not WWII, there are no cetniks anymore.
And one interesting note about you and Croats calling Serbs chetnics. During 1990' as student I was living in student dormitories in Belgrade Student's city ("Studentski grad", hope you heard about it). It was full of Serbian student refugees from Bosnia and Croatia.Young educated people population... All Serb students from Croatia I knew were croatized thanks to comunist sistem, none of them knew to write Cyrillic, none of them went to Orthodox Church etc etc and being Serb most of them barely knew and it was last thing to think off. All of them I spoke found out that they were Serbs when Tudjman got to power in Croatia...becuse they were feeling that in bad way everywhere. One of those friends of mine beautifully explained his national awakening in Croatia then -"They called me chentik once, they called me chetnik twice, they called me chetnik third time, fourth time I replied - What!?"