System battle - How can you win your battles?

[Idibil]

many players have problem with new system battle in Iberia Total War. I wait it because we are accustomed to play with Rome Total War, that have a system most arcade and fast. Who remmenber Medieval Total war 1 may feel more comfortable, because MTW1 was more tactical than rome or MTW2.

ITW team want a real system battle (all that might allow the engine of the game).
-In real battle casualties are few in fight (casualties is produced mainly in flee)
-In real battle u cannt win a battle with only kill. It was moral. First won enemy moral.
-Horses dont attack mass of infantry of front, and crash with a horse is difficutl that kill to u.
-Units dont always responding to orders as expected or his indiscipline could do they fight disarray.

How can u win enemy moral?
If u attack only of front, frontal chargue, your men will fight with his opponets long time until that somebody lose moral for kill or fear and flee. Kill a man is not easy, kill a troop costs, and if they have mail, helm, and shield, it can be very difficult or not?

In ITW u must think like win moral enemy.
-attack side that doesnt cover the shield.
-your cavalry chargue by back
-Destroy supply carts.
-isolated enemy units
-softens lines or stop their advance with missile.
-prepares ambushes
-Dont let that your enemys meet at the centre of the village where his morale is fight or dead. Kill they out, conquest center u and pushes with your cavalry far. When Rome conquested Cartago had that fight house by house
-use your brain, you're a general, if u want win think.

We have fight in multiplayer with ITW and We won in times of 20 to 50 minutes. Player human is most difficult that AI, and multiplayer games are tremendously fun.

If u want most arcade mode yet, u can change Export_description_units of ITW and put most attack to unit.
stat_sec 3, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear

U can change and put number most hight.

[Monkwarrior]

As an example, yesterday I was playing a battle (Lusitanians against Oretani) just to test the sound system. It was an "infantry-only" battle, but I think it illustrates the main features of the new battle system.

It is very important to keep formations, as a isolated unit will easily get feared by sourrinding enemies. In this battle, my IA enemy kept all the infantry in a perfect formation until they arrived near my lines (point for the formations file ).

Projectile kill, but also (and more important) reduce the moral. Sometimes it is better to keep part of your missile for a second projectile wave instead of using all at the beginning.

First mistake of IA: trying to flank with an infantry unit. In principle this is well-done, but the movement must be simultaneous with a frontal attack. In this case the javelin rain over the enemy stoped the frontal attack, leaving alone the flanking unit, easily "eaten" by my third line (the fearsome Arti).

Second mistake of IA: units close to a fighting unit did not help that unit. As moral is very important, if the fighting unit is surrounded by two enemy units (of mine) its moral will fall down. A help movement from a near unit perhaps could have change this trend, reducing the moral of my own troops, but... IA is still quite dummy .

Fatigue: one possible mistake is to pursue fleeing enemies. Why is it a mistake? Because you must be sure that your troops won't finish the race completely exhausted and surrounded by a larger amount of enemies. In such case the effect would be opposite to what we expect.

Instead of chasing enemies, keep your units close one from the others, keep them relaxed, preventing any fatigue. In case of the enemy stops routing and faces you again, his troops will be exhausted, and they will be easily defeated by your fresh troops in the second assault (as it happened in my case).

In this example both armies had around 900 men, and I suffered only 50 casualties whereas the AI enemy had over 450 (even considering that I'm a very bad player ).

[loet66]

Hi,


I've understood that a arcade version will be out soon for players (like me) which are disappointed by your system battle, correct?

At this time, I'm trying to create new attacks stats for the units (more strong) and if it works, I will post my file here : are you alright ?

Best regards,

loet66

[loet66]

Hi,

unfortunaly, my custom files doesn't work : too many errors (sic).

It's a titan work to do.

I'm so disappointed by this battle system.

Please, post here a arcade system (like RTR system).

Too bad, the battles are too long and unrealistic in my opinion.

loet66

[Idibil]

ITW fan El_Galon is doing it: http://www.celtiberos.net/foro/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=460

If u wish change attack, u only have that change here in your EDU:
stat_sec 3, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear

[Marrz]

So what do you consider realistic in battle system? the fact that every man doesn't fight till the last? Realistically, that never happened unless surrounded. Battles would be fought and one side pushed back from force and exhaustion.

[Nicodemus]

To be honest, I don't experience this battle system at all.

Every battle that I have fought so far lasts 5 minutes or less, just lik estandard RTW.

Units collapse almost instantly, they move very fast, I hardly see any fighting and suddenly it is all over.

Do I need to change something to have these "extended" battles ? or do they only happen later in the game ?

I am playing Carthag ein the Carthage provincial campaign.

The only mod that I have played that gives any ong battles is ATW.

This is an interesting mod, but the battles are not what I expected.

[Idibil]

Nicodemus, have u speak about El-Galón´s mod (arcade system) or original ITW system mod?
For realisc u should have original system battle of ITW (original mod instalation). I think that u have install Galon´s mod then and u have rome mode of battles for it.

[Nicodemus]

ITW 1.5 no other downloads...Not much fun. Arthurian or Troy TW battles are much better

[Idibil]

ah, u should install Gold Edition, nicodemus, ITW 1.5 havent final system battle. Gold Editio is the latest.

U can download here:
http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/m...tegory478.html

[C-Rob]

After downloading this mod I thought it was awesome. I commend the team in taking battle realism to heart and working for it and making a pretty great campaign map and unit roster. BUT...
I think the attempt to make a more realistic battle was well-thought and had some good ideas, but over-all I think it butchered what makes a good battle. One problem is that the hoplite phalanx tears through your lines, yes, separating the sides into two, but then it's enveloped!(at least on normal unit sizes, perhaps large doesn't do this? IN that case, ohwell, I guess I just wont' be able to enjoy true battle realism as you attempted to create) The AI doesn't know how to use a phalanx(it would understand it better if, yes, the hoplites tore through, but over a pile of dead bodies, not just shoving people out of the way) Or even if they could just stop there, hacking at your lines while only moving forward to kill more. In that way a phalanx actually does its job(obviously there are instances in ancient battle where there were "wedge" formations of infantry where it was that point of separating the units in field, but that's besides the point). The envelopment also prevents your cavalry from doing any real damage to the back of the phalanx because your own men are in the way! Speaking of cavalry...

I think it has some of the Chivalry total war logic(not saying that either mod is better or worse or any ideas are being taken) where it throws cavalry as the epitome of military existance and all the other units just engage in an endless gridlock, but just adding a few more defense points, less missle attack, and everyone who aren't skirmishers have 2 hit points. I think it slowed the battle down TOO much.

THough I do like how every unit has much less stanima. I've had my cavalry tire almost instantly after they begin a run. Really punches in the meaning of the advisor note where he says to conserve your cavalry and charge only a short distance to provide maximum impact.

Also, when you say, "most of the casualties were caused by the flee" it really doesn't help the cause when your cavalry can't kill anything because it is way too confused by path finding to hit anything. I've had my cavalry follow a unit of routing missle throwers, stopping every so often, I assume because it was confused by the couple of guys lagging behind the main group, and not kill one of them over probably five hundred yards or so. Frustrating, but probably because of the RTW engine and beyond your control.

I'll continue to play the game though- at least finish the rome and carthage campaigns. It's good and on its way to superb, but really isn't at the level beyond, nice.

Maybe there are some pointers and explanations for my agitations as well?

[Idibil]

Thx u, C-Rob
Really, we had try create simulation combat most real than we could, but we have limitations because rome have most arcade orientation. Phalanx should run well, have u try it in big unit? Ours test they havet problems in fight.

Un saludo.