i thought it would be appropriate to have a page for discussing things like the role of Lyanna and 'the kingslayer' so here it is!
do you have any suggestions? I say let the Kingslayer be a general for Targaryen. Not sure about Lyanna's implementation.
i think king-slayer should be general for targs as should all kingsguard, but i think there should be some way to incorperate his 'kingslaying' through a script. i will make him have little loyalty so he can always change sides rather easily though. with lyanna she should be a princess on dragonstone with a trait or script or somthing which removes movement , like the one on the scribes in the first game.
wasn't she somewhere near Dorne though ? (Tower of Joy)
I'm not sure about Lyanna's implementation. Even if you keep her like that you could do something like send a diplomat to her and marry her to your faction leader/heir and that would be weird. If you think about it she never participated in the war. She was one of the reasons but you have her being kidnapped just before the War and then Ned finds her dying after the War is over. Whatever the fate of the War I think Lyanna would have been dead. I think a more important thing to talk about is the map. House Grafton is seriously weak. It needs some more settlements (2-3), maybe add the Sister Isles, Coldwater and another one called the Paps on the East coast and remove Runestone from House Grafton.
im so bad when it comes to places, i thought that it wa on dragonstone but noobas is right it is in the red mountains of dorne. i think lyanna should just be an ancillary then? also prophet i agree about grafton but in reality they were weak and got beaten rather quickly in the war (me thinks), i think in terms of gameplay it would be better to stretch the truth by saying that they took runestone instead of letting them have 1 settlement nd ultimatelly bieng wipped out rather quickly. i agree about adding sisterton though. also guys should i feature all of the kings-guard or just the important ones?
Well I saw it mentioned that there were other loyalist lords in the Vale. Problem is except for the Lord of Sisterton and Lord Grafton thee is no other name or anything. Could it be possible to have a script based on the one in the alpha and in the new enhanced version? I mean a script where if you are one of the rebel factions, and Robert/Jon/Ned dies you can go back into the King's Peace. You pay a certain amount of money and you are at peace with all the loyalists and at war with all the rebels. You can base it on the claim kingship option Also a thing that bugged me in all mods. You can recruit a general bodyguard unit (which is basically recruit a general) in the capitals of each faction. Can you make it so that all generals recruited in Riverrun have riverlord names, all generals recruited in Storm's End have stormlord names ? Something to represent that when you kill for instance the Tullys, not all Houses from the Riverlands die with the faction Well if I'm not mistaken some of the Kingsguard were left at the Tower of Joy during the entire war. Adding them all would give the Targaryens allot of generals to begin with. (You have 7 members of the kingsguard, Rhaegar, Aerys, Vyseris as a young boy still growing up, Lord Darry because his house was loyalist and you need to represent him somehow, + whatever Crownland lords might have been active at the time.)
im afraid i dont think that is possible as each faction has a set group of names, and i dont think they can be changed via scripting. btw guys i have a couple of uncertainty's about the targs 1) should i include all kingsguard 2) i have given them stoney sept, driftmark and dragonstone but would they have other lands for example maidenpool and saltpans?
I don't know of saltpans, but maidenpool definately However, the wealth of the family and the town has been significantly reduced since House Mooton chose to side with the Targaryens (their kings) against the Tullys (their liege lords) during Robert's Rebellion.[2] from here: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Mooton
thanks prophet, i will add miadenpool to targs but leave saltpans. i will also make a lord mooton
We need to find a definite starting date. But my knowledge of the war of the usurper time line is pretty rough. I know robert fought some loyalist stormlords and lost a battle to Randyll Tarly, but I'm not sure when that happened. After or before Grafton defeat? And when was the battle of the Bells?
Well I've read some time ago things about the war so I know somewhat the timeline. Problem is that both Robert and Ned were with Jon at the Eyrie when it all broke out. After it starte, Jon remained at the Eyrie gathering his banners, Ned fled north to bring his own men (that's when he got captured on Sisterton). Robert went to gather the stormlords. He wanted to take a ship from Gulltown. That's when House Grafton rose up. They tried to block Robert and capture him. Somehow a battle was fought at Gulltown between Targaryen Loyalists and Jon's Bannermen. Robert killed lord Grafton and with him defeated the loyalists of the Vale. Robert fled to Storm's End to gather troops while Jon marched his own bannermen (now with the Vale united). The Battle of Ashford (I believe that is the one against Randyll Tarly) was after Robert defeated the Stormlords (Lord Fell, Lord Cafferen and Lord Grandison). That was when Robert lost and he headed with his troops North to unite with the Tullys and Ned. There was the Battle of the Bells at Stoney Sept where Robert was defeated by Connington. Robert hid in the town whilst the united Riverlords and Northmen headed to his aid. The united rebels defeted Connington (who managed to organize a good retreat with most of the troops). Connington was then exiled. And that's I believe the moment Rhaegar finally showed up and led what armies the Targaryens had left against the North. Then came the battle of the trident and we all know how that worked out. I love war. So however you look at it so far the submod is less than accurate. If you have House Grafton then Ned and Robert should still be in the Vale alone. But it makes killing them off way to easy.(Just send Targaryen units to block the access in the Vale and win the war through ambushing them). With Ned already married to Catelyn and Robert in the Stormlands you have House Grafton gone. The Vale, The Riverlands, The North in rebellion. It might make more sense to turn House Grafton into House Darry. (They played a bigger part in the war). But then you kind of upset the power balance in central Westeros (we all know how stupid the AI acts. Probably the North won't do anything in this scenario either).
with the sisterton thing it seemed like a small event Eddard Stark had returned north by sea to see to the muster of the northmen, but his ship was shipwrecked on sweetsister. Lord Borrell knew that his liege lord, Lord sunderland, although an Arryn bannerman, harboured royalist sympathies and would want Eddard taken prisoner for a ransom. Lord Borrell chose to release Eddard instead, and he returned home safely. it would be easy to start eddard at somwere like coldwater and just let him walk back up or maybe have a northern navy start close so he can get a boat to the north, its the problem with robert which seems the hardest to deal with, it would make the game more intresting if he started in the vale though and it would be easier to keep house grafton, its up to dux though
Perhaps we should add a loyalist rebel faction, which would include all loyalist houses of the Rebels. Sort of like the baron alliance in the brittania campaign. That way we could combine grafton, rebel stormland lords (such as fell) and Darry and create a reasonable strong faction. If we even add the baron alliance script we could make it possible that more lords join this loyalist uprising. What do you think?
im not sure, i think as a faction it would be wiped out rather quick, which i suppose is lore accurate but in terms of gameplay it is not too intresting. i think that fell and connington should be made into stormland rebels , and then sisterton and grafton into vale rebels
So you say just make them rebels as in not a faction?
That would tip the scale too much in favor of the rebels. In the current state you can as an example play as Grafton and steadily recapture the Vale for the Loyalits and create a new scenario. You also show the possible rise of Houses to become the new lords of regions (stormlands, the Vale). By having rebels in each region you make the game more fun. Making all the rebel loyalists just one faction is like making a single faction from Tully/Stark in the originla TW it resolves some issues and is somewhat lore accurate (because Robb is in charge or everything) but it ruins the game. On a side note, I don't think Dux likes Targaryens too much Two more questions: 1. Should the Greyjoys be allowed to claim kingship in the submod after a certain amount of turns or when/if the Targaryens die ? 2.Can we somehow use the new enhanced submod's hidden family trees? Maybe combine them with the ability to switch sides. For instance the Tyrells get killed off, the Florents come to power in the Reach and they decide Robert is the better king.
no i meant make them into 2 playable factions called stormland rebels and vale rebels or maybe stormland loyalists and vale loyalists would fit better? dux has graciously put me in charge of the targs general and military wise and i will try to be fair with armies and stuff. i dont think the greyjoy kingship should happen as i think more of them as a possible 'on the fence' faction which could potentially deside the victor. i think making hidden tree's is extremelly easy, so if you want i could do that for some of the factions.
I've already added hidden families in the King of Rivers and Hills mod for every faction so yea that is easy to do. If you give one family the most authority then that family will be the new faction leaders when the old one dies off. This assumes you don't use adoptions of course. Why do you think I don't really like Targaryens? How should we define who can claim kingship? Robert can, but what if he dies? Ned? It has been said ned had the power to claim the throne that very day he rode in the throne room. But he gave it to Robert and we all know how that turned out.
Well kingship will be tricky because Robert is basically an usurper. If it was about contesting kingship like in the normal W:TW than you could have used the normal heir usage. But with this rebellion I don't think Stannis would have fought on if Robert had died. And why Ned and not Jon if Robert is no more? In a rebellion everyone could claim the crown because just like Robert they'd have a very shaky claim and in the end, it's all about military might. Just a hunch regarding the Targaryens
