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I. General information
This thread is meant to gather all information about the faction and to conduct discussions on the faction related issues.
The entries should be developed by both the SSHIP team and the interested players.
It continues the discussion conducted in this thread.
II. Strategy & gameplay
To be developed in due course. If you've played the game with this faction and have insights how to help fellow players, please write a proposal for this section.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishmalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannitico
III. Provinces
The provinces that have historically been assigned to this faction are listed here - it's usually defined by the "faction_creator" in the "descr_strat.txt" file.
Provincial titles:
General explanations to be found in the relevant thread on the PTs.
Catholic: Graf/Markgraf/Herzog - depending on the historical observations, discussion done in this thread.
Orthodox: generic English: “Knyaz” + name + "skyi"
Muslim: generic "Emir".
Names of provinces: thoroughly discussed in the same thread (link). The results are as follows.
Note that a few provinces (Praha, Olomoc, Brandenburg, Liubice) are in the Poland's thread so that this entry is not cluttered so much.
Magdeburg (Sachsen)
PT: Herzog von Sachsen
CoA:
Settlement name: Magdeburg. Previously it was Hamburg but to the gameplay purposes it was replaced with an equally important city but located in the empty (from the gameplay perspective) space.
Province name: Sachsen.
From the gameplay perspective, the problem is that three cities (Bremen, Hamburg, Liubice) are too close to one another. The result is a huge empty land south up to Nuremberg and west up to Coellen. Due to my knowledge, Hamburg hasn't been for a long time a big city given the Abodriten raids lasting till 12c. For some time it must have been still smaller than Magdeburg. Both for gameplay and for historicity, the capital of province was moved from Hamburg to Magdeburg in version 098.
Concerning the number of citizens of Hamburg, Wikipedia says: In 1350 the Black Death, one of the deadliest pandemics in human history, struck in Hamburg killing more than 6,000, half of the city's population... 1377 At this time Hamburg's population was 14,000. Hamburg was the third–largest city in the Hanseatic League (after Lübeck and Cologne).
Bremen (Westfalen)
PT: Herzog von Westfalen
CoA:
Settlement name: Bremen (or Slavic: Brema)
Province name: Westfalen (as we stick to the names of the provinces with the German-speaking population to be in German).
Coellen (Niderlothringen)
PT: Herzog von Lothringen (you cannot give a title "Erzbischof" which would actually fit here).
CoA:
Settlement name: Coellen
Province name: Niderlothringen (as we stick to the names of the provinces with the German-speaking population to be in German).
Trier (Oberlothringen)
PT: Herzog von Luxemburg (to give some flavor to the title, and taking into account that you cannot give a title "Erzbischof" which would fit here. If we'd stick to the contemporary name, then it'd be Lucilinburhuc).
CoA:
Settlement name: Trier (obviously)
Province name: Oberlothringen (as we stick to the names of the provinces with the German-speaking population to be in German).
Frankfurt (Franconia)
PT: Herzog von Franken? Landgraf von Hessen?
CoA:
Settlement name: Frankfurt.
Province name: Franken (Hessen seems to be too small part of the province even though it'd sound good and was an ancient name coming from the Chatti tribe)
Speyer (Rheinfranken)
PT: Pfalzgraf bei Rhein (seems historical)
CoA:
Settlement name: Speyer
Province name: Rheinfranken (the name Rhein sounds very ahistorical indeed, and Franken was along the Main)
I have serious doubts whether Speyer should the be capital of the region. It must have been a small city, bolstered up only with its political role just at the beginning of the 12c.
Basel (Helvetia)Quote:
Am 7. August 1111, dem Tag des Begräbnisses Heinrichs IV. im Speyerer Dom, und am 14. August 1111 verlieh Heinrich V. den Bürgern der Stadt Speyer zwei Privilegien, die als Urkundeninschriften über dem Westportal des Doms angebracht wurden.
Speyer zählte damals nur rund 500 Bürger. Es hatte wohl machtpolitische Gründe, dass Kaiser Heinrich IV. einen derart großen Bau in dem – nach heutigen Maßstäben – winzigen Städtchen bauen ließ. Die römischen Kaiser hatten nicht nur weltliche, sondern auch kirchliche Macht. Der daraus resultierende Konflikt mit dem damals gerade erstarkten Papsttum kulminierte sodann im Investiturstreit zwischen Heinrich IV. und Papst Gregor VII. Die Größe und Pracht des Speyerer Doms unterstrich neben dem politischen insbesondere auch den religiösen Machtanspruch des Kaisers.
PT: Herzog von Habsburg or something else.
CoA:
Settlement name: Basel.
Province name: Helvetia (It seems it's not possible to find a proper medieval name for the whole province, it's in Latin as it's on the linguistic border. However, is it not historical to have both Alamannia and Schwaben, while Helvetia is a Renaissance concept, and most of the territory is outside the medieval Swabia. Hochburgund was also somewhat south of the present territory.
Tom Scott, The City State in Europe 1000-1600, OUP, 2012: Basel had 10k inhabitants, twice as many as the other cities in the region.
Ulm (Schwaben)
PT: Herzog von Schwaben or Herzog von Staufen
CoA:
Settlement name: Ulm (it seems that for he most of Middle Ages it was more important city than Augsburg).
Province name: Schwaben.
Nuoremberc (Nordgau)
PT: Markgraf von Nordgau
CoA:
Settlement name: Nuoremberc (perhaps for High and Late eras it should be changed to Nürnberg)
Province name: Nordgau (seems to be a good choice, especially for the beginning of the game. The alternative would be to call Franken - Westfranken and Nordgau - Ostfranken. However, I haven't got a thinnest idea if Nordgau was used in the MA, or not...).
Regensburg (Bavaria)
PT: Herzog von Bayern (Pfalzgraf was phased out in 13c by the domination of Herzog von Bayern)
CoA:
Settlement name: Regensburg (this was the most important and populous city in the region throughout the MA, surpassing Salzburg and other)
Province name: Bayern (as we stick to the names of the provinces with the German-speaking population to be in German).
Wien (Austria)
PT: Markgraf von Österreich (Grossherzog is an own 14c creation, legalized also on its own in 15c)
CoA:
Settlement name:
Province name: Österreich (as we stick to the names of the provinces with the German-speaking population to be in German).
Friesach (Kärnten)
PT: Herzog von Kärnten
CoA:
Settlement name: Friesach / Klagenfurt. Friesach was briefly the most important city in 13th century, but then it collapsed. For the late era Klagenfurt of Villach should be chosen.
Province name: Carinthia (the province was still inhabited in large part by the Slavs, so I think the Latin name - ie and not German Kärnten - is a compromise for this border province.
Utrecht (Friesland)
PT: Herzog von Utrecht (or somehow different?)
CoA:
Settlement name: Utrecht (perfect)
Province name: Friesland (this is a compromise for most of the Middle Ages, especially the early one. Holland, Utrecht were distinct entities, while term Friesland encompassed the whole region only in 7-8th century)
Loven (Brabant)
PT: Herzog von Brabant
CoA:
Settlement name: Loven. Loven was the capital of the Duchy and perhaps most important city 11-14 centuries, only then overshadowed by Antwerp( , and also by Brussels. Liege was an important ecclesiastic center, but economically played a lower role.
Province name: Brabant (perfect)
An article about Louvain is here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifthrasir
IV. Faction specific features (Crown, Offices, Bloodline, Traits, Buildings)
The Crown of the HRE is discussed in this entry. Actually, it is the crown of the Römisch-deutcher König as the number of provinces will be lower than the tradition of the Das Heilige Römische Reich. The place of coronation is Aachen, what translates in the SSHIP map to Coellen.
Im Jahre 936 wurde in der Aachener Pfalz Otto der Große gekrönt, der damit die Grundlage für die Tradition der Krönung der römisch - deutschen Könige in Aachen begründete.
https://i.imgur.com/H4MgLvF.png
The Offices are described in this thread.
HRE has access to a few buildings that are not available to every faction:
- Castle Library - a building (currently) only for the catholic factions.
- University (highest level) - not available to the pagan factions.
- Tourney Fields - a building only for the catholic factions.
- South Italian building (Norman Strongholds) - it's restricted to only a few factions; for the HRE it's buildable only in South Italy.
HRE Blood: not checked.
Specific traits: not checked.
V. Starting position in 1132 (incl. settlements, armies, generals, traits, political situation)
Provinces
After discussion in this thread, the Brandenburg province has been made independent (as Holstein is).
Armies
No new ideas. It is as it was in 092.
Characters & politics
There should be a set of traits developed making the management of the internal stability the most important part of the early game for the HRR player. MWY had other ideas as well (see here).
Assistance to the AI
There are not scripted sieges - the faction is too powerful.
Additional nobles - not checked yet in the script.
VI. Units
to be developed in due course
VIII. Reserve
to be used if needed
Interesting data about Brabant and Friesland from Bas van Bavel, Manors and Markets, OUP, 2010:
population of the Low Countries increased from 200,000 in 700 AD to 2,500,000 in 1500 AD. This is 12x increase, even with the Black Death.
During my Hungarian campaign, I noticed the Province name used for most of modern-day Switzerland and Alsace is "Helvetia". I know this topic has been discussed already, but I've recently read that the Knights Hospitaller had named the priory that corresponds to the Southern part of the German Langue "Alemannia". While this was a synonym for "Swabia" until the end of the 12th century, the Order had it further divided into eight bailiwicks. The largest of those was known as the "Obere Lande" (Upper Lands), its area closely corresponding to the province in SSHIP. For this reason, I would like to suggest that the name "Helvetia" for the province of Basel, which I'm almost certain is not historical, be replaced by "Upper Alemannia".
Curiously enough, the city of Basel has an entire quarter named "St. Johann" after the Knights of St John, even though their commandery building went into private hands in 1806 and was demolished in the 1930s.
The second remark I want to get rid off is the Ancillary name. There was never a title like "Count of Basel" because the landlord of the city was the local bishop; before the citizens bought themselves off him, that is. Rather, the corresponding title could be that of a "Rector of Burgundy", a title the Zähringen dynasty held until their extinction in 1218, which was practically an informal Ducal or Margravial title for Upper Burgundy/Transjurana respectively (the tenants styled themselves "Dux et Rector Burgundiae", but there was no official Duchy). That region that covered all of Western Switzerland and parts of France, and was not absorbed by the kingdom of Arles that replaced the Burgundian kingdom in the South. It doesn't match perfectly, but it's not too far-fetched.
The problem is that the administrative division didn't correspond to the cultural boundaries. This is made even more complicated by the fact that Basel itself was nominally lying within to the Kingdom of Burgundy, and so didn't belong to the Duchies or Counties of Germany, despite being seen as part of Swabia (it was just on the border between the two).
Concerning historical names: In German, the name seems to have always bee Basel, the only alternative being the Latin "Basilia".
Repository idea: faction intro movies
HRE
The idea
Period compositions I would use (both 12th century), either
An absolute hit, Under der linden
or
Meie din liechter schin
German names in the Middle Ages: we've got Rainald for HRE, and Reinald for France/Jerusalem. I wonder if it's right.
Besides: placement of resources will be improved in the version 097.
Do you have any tips to stabilize the HRE? Because with each change of emperor I have the impression that we cannot avoid civil war.
Perhaps not, I don't know. The HRE is one of the biggest and richest factions so it has different challenges from, say, Portugal or Zenghids. For the Byzantines these are also civil wars (plus risks of a jihad against Constantinople). For the HRE are the civil wars and the potentially aggressive pope (plus risks of excommunication).Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthalion
In my experience , i suppose carefully adopt (or not addopting or marriaging) non family members , and get lucky with SONS instead of DAUGHTERS so they get the Claimant trait. YOu are going to have to let an Usuruper take the throne and establish his own bloodline most likely , this is why the first turns are a pain , since you cant defend your kingdom which is largely spread out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthalion
But this is historical. The HRE was literally plagued by power hungry nobles and civil wars , almost everytime , someone wanted a shot at the crown , and created massive pain in the rear of the empire.
I might have an idea i kept thinking a long time ago regarding the HRE .Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow
They shouldnt be able to recruit archers , or have VERY LOW archer replenishment (and no professional archers). From what i gathered , the HRE was dominated by Crossbows .
There is the duplicate unit of Levy Crossbowmen - Crossbow Militia , maybe you can convert one of them to Western Crossbowmen or Sergeant Crossbowmen , and give ownership only to the HRE . And you can remove levy archers and semi professional archers (or make replenishment much much lower).
Out of curiousity, what's the rationale for giving some provinces of the HRE to this faction and leaving others out? Is it gameplay? Is it some areas being more 'loyal' to the Imperial throne? Nominally speaking even Pisa was part of the Holy Roman Empire so I can see why it was omitted, but why Burgundy and not Bohemia?
I don't know. It was done before my time in the SSHIP. Maybe something is described in this thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaytaninc
Late pikemen incorrectly categorized as spearman rather than pikes