Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beratkenanarslan
I am mad not because it is historically inaccurate I am mad because I believe it is made intentionally. There is a huge hate exist against Turkey/Muslim people in EU. So you put Rum Kingdom instead of Devletül Seljuk. And put Seljuk's to the near to end of map and call is historically accurate and wishing history is like that and telling everybody it is historically accurate is a big lie and shamefull.
The only one who argues by using prejudice is you. You speak about the EU in combination with anti Turk/Muslim propaganda by using anti EuropeanErdogan propaganda. You are right, there are people who hate Turks or the Muslims but most of them are called right wingextremists, and they are far away form being the majority (btw these people talk the same way about the EU as you do). If I would argue like you I would've said: “Typical Turks. All of them are terrorists who want to kill people because they have another religion!” but I know most of the Turks aren't people like these, nor is every TurkanErdogan Fanboy. I'm from Germany, here are many turks and they live here as part of the society, when I was younger I often went to turkey for holidays and guess what neither did any friend or family member said “why do you go over there?!?” nor weren't/aren't the newspapers full of anti Turkish articles (maybe except far right new but I never consumed these). It's always the same, it seems to be very easy to get people to blame the ones they don't know. Here in Germany, most people who hate foreigners live in regions where nearly no foreign people live - you are doing the same, hate sth you don't know by criticizing people for sth they don't do. I know, when the EU or single European governments are criticizing Erdogan, he turns it by telling the Turkish public: They said sth against the Turks! But that's not the case, you don't believe me? Well, you are able to communicate in english, so it should be easy for you scrolling through news from Europeanmainstream news.
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beratkenanarslan
Thank you for your kind answer now I feel shameful for my attack because you really seem don't know in deep and want to explore so I will make a big post to inform you mod developers about those times geography and history. I hope my efforts will change something in the future. I would really like to play truthfully accurate middle east campaign.
Yo mate, you keep talking about the 1070's, this mod starts in 1132. You know, stuff happened during those six decades in the Seljuk Empire and all over the place. Go read some History books. I repeat, HISTORY books. That's the only thing someone can tell you, as a friendly advice - because History is so much more interesting than nationalistic propaganda.
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beratkenanarslan
Wowwww... alright alright nice wish. Let me tell you the what happened :thumbsup2
Turks were coming from Asia as always, invading european countries. But this time they thought like "oh actually why we always go back instead of staying and getting benefit of these filthy resources". So Turks decided to move to Anatolia. At that times Byzantine Empire (aka old East Roman Empire) were holding those lands (Anatolia). Not rums or georgians. They were crashed and destroyed when the first Turk wave came (which starts at 1077 but I will talk about it later just wait <3). They were so weak even Byzantine Empire were not counting them as a Sultanate or Kingdom. They were weak villages which is not even able to decline tribute. Or their words were not even cared about any other middle east factions. But interestingly mod developers and EU people just care so much about those little tribes. Whatever lets continue with how Turks were at Anatolia how georgia and rums were not sultanate or kingdom. Firstly Turks started to enter anatolia at 1071 with Manzikert (Malazgirt in real name) battle against byzantine. thats what "books" , "encyclopedia" , "wikipedia", "history" says. I mention these because I am not talking from my mind. I will share resources don't worry :) . There were byzantine at that fight agains seljuks. But mod developers put rum kingdom at that territory which is interesting maybe coincidence who knows. let me share you some images then I will continue:
https://i.hizliresim.com/hpo6xlx.PNG
So it is easy to see there is no rum sultanate yep? whatever let me show you more and what happened after that because you won't be satisfied.
So as you can see it is easy to see that Turks fought agains byzantine at 1077 for Nicaea and took it. Then they stayed there this was the first time they didn't go back.
more more all from wikipedia Idk what else to say and if you need historically accurate info I can give it all day long
I believe there is confusion. The sultanate of roum (or rum) is indeed a Turkish Seljuk state. But as I said in my previous message, the empire split into several rival Turkish states (at the death of Malik Shah I in 1092); which also allowed the Crusaders to come and settle. Without these divisions, it is likely that the Crusaders would never have reached Jerusalem.
SSHIP attempts to replicate these divisions. The Sultanate of Roum (Seljuk) is therefore in rivalry, for example, with that of Zengid, itself having to fight against the inclinations of independence of the Caliph of Baghdad ...
The map above is correct but it does not highlight the dissent between the Turkish states of the time. However, even if the orange color seems to show the uniformity of the Seljuk territory, we can clearly see the drawing of the borders: from left to right:
1 - The Sultanate (Seljuk) of Rum
2- The Danichmendid state (?)
3- The emirate of Aleppo (Zengid)
4- The Abbasid Caliphate
5- The Shah Arslan I (?)
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beratkenanarslan
Thank you for your kind answer now I feel shameful for my attack because you really seem don't know in deep and want to explore so I will make a big post to inform you mod developers about those times geography and history. I hope my efforts will change something in the future. I would really like to play truthfully accurate middle east campaign.
Information would be much appreciated berat (I hope the shortening of your name is alright, but I thrive on nicknames and little shortcuts through all the long names one finds on the fora ;) )! Also, do be sure to provide some peer-reviewed sources if you can. Wikipedia is always a good starting point, and is something we all obviously use, but before we commit to comprehensive changes -- which are a lot of work, just to make that clear -- we make sure those changes reflect the current historical scholarship about the time and region. And that does not mean just the historical scholarship that comes out of Oxford or Cambridge exclusively. If you are familiar with good archeological or historical departments at universities in Asia Minor, Arabia, or the greater Persian area, do share those! Everyone on our team is a lover of history, and is rather more interested in the truth than in narrow nationalistic or ethnic world-building. We might need help translating the materials that are in languages we don't know, but if you'll provide that help, we are more than happy to have a look at them all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rheinländer
The only one who argues by using prejudice is you. You speak about the EU in combination with anti Turk/Muslim propaganda by using anti EuropeanErdogan propaganda. You are right, there are people who hate Turks or the Muslims but most of them are called right wingextremists, and they are far away form being the majority (btw these people talk the same way about the EU as you do). If I would argue like you I would've said: “Typical Turks. All of them are terrorists who want to kill people because they have another religion!” but I know most of the Turks aren't people like these, nor is every TurkanErdogan Fanboy. I'm from Germany, here are many turks and they live here as part of the society, when I was younger I often went to turkey for holidays and guess what neither did any friend or family member said “why do you go over there?!?” nor weren't/aren't the newspapers full of anti Turkish articles (maybe except far right new but I never consumed these). It's always the same, it seems to be very easy to get people to blame the ones they don't know. Here in Germany, most people who hate foreigners live in regions where nearly no foreign people live - you are doing the same, hate sth you don't know by criticizing people for sth they don't do. I know, when the EU or single European governments are criticizing Erdogan, he turns it by telling the Turkish public: They said sth against the Turks! But that's not the case, you don't believe me? Well, you are able to communicate in english, so it should be easy for you scrolling through news from Europeanmainstream news.
Rhineländer, I know your heart is in the right place, but this is not really the place for this discussion. Please try to keep the talk here exclusively to talk regarding the SSHIP submod, and restrict discussions of politics, ideology, or current affairs to the relevant areas of the forum. Again, I know where you are coming from, and I entirely agree, but this is not really the place for that discussion. Sorry for cutting you off, and I hope you get where I am coming from. ;)
Re: SSHIP - General Discussion
Event Millet-i Rum added:
{RUM20_MILLETI_RUM_BODY}Rūm millet (millet-i Rûm), or "Roman nation", was the name of the Eastern Orthodox Christian community in the Ottoman Empire. Despite being subordinated within the Ottoman political system, the community maintained a certain internal autonomy. \n\nGAME STRATEGY: For the Muslim factions the unrests in Constantinople will ease a bit, and the integration of the ex-Byzantine provinces will proceed faster. \n\nAfter the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire in 1453, all Orthodox Christians were treated as a lower class of people. The Rum millet was instituted by Sultan Mehmet II who set himself to reorganise the state as the conscious heir of the East Roman Empire. The millet-i Rum community became a basic form of social organization and source of identity for all the ethnic groups inside it and most people began to identify themselves simply as "Christians".
{RUM20_MILLETI_RUM_TITLE}Millet-i Rûm
Quote:
if RandomPercent < 20
and I_EventCounter FL_is_crowned_ruler == 1
and I_SettlementOwner Constantinople = rum
and I_SettlementOwner Nicaea = rum
and I_SettlementOwner Smyrna = rum
log -------------------- Millet-i Rum ----------------------------------------
historic_event RUM20_MILLETI_RUM factions { rum, byzantium, zengid, georgia, abbasid, egypt, jerusalem, hungary, venice, }
if not I_IsFactionAIControlled rum
inc_event_counter rum20_milleti_rum_player 1
end_if
end_if
Quote:
if I_EventCounter rum20_milleti_rum_player == 1 ; Mileti-i Rum established
and I_EventCounter faction_turn_islam == 1 ; for all Muslim factions
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_huge == 0 ; only if Byzantium is in decline
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_large == 0
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_medium == 0
inc_counter Constantinople_turmoil_points -4
if I_EventCounter FL_policy_thinks_of_his_people == 1 ; if FL pursues a conducive policy
inc_event_counter Constantinople_turmoil_points -4
end_if
end_if
Quote:
if I_EventCounter rum20_milleti_rum == 1 ; Mileti-i Rum established
and I_EventCounter faction_turn_islam == 1 ; for all Muslim factions
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_huge == 0 ; only if Byzantium is in decline
and I_EventCounter faction_size_byzantium_large == 0
inc_event_counter Smyrna_turns_in_our_realm 1 ; integration is faster
end_if
Sulanate of Rum army start makes no sense
Your northern army starts off in the hills that's suppose to be outside of a city Sinope.... but the way the terrain is you actually are blocked off and have to come back down and go around to reach it
Just looks like a huge oversight
Re: Sulanate of Rum army start makes no sense
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeoMajor
Your northern army starts off in the hills that's suppose to be outside of a city Sinope.... but the way the terrain is you actually are blocked off and have to come back down and go around to reach it
Just looks like a huge oversight
I actually like that detail on the map. it underlines the hight of the geography above sea level on the shores of the black sea. one of my first moves in the first turn of my Seljuks of Rum campaign was to lay a watchtower exactly where that army spawned NE of angora, it was a perfect position to monitor Byzantine movement on the shores of the black sea without needing to occupy a settlement on the shores. that's geographically acurate in my opinion.
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/WG6BMYdOp0iy.png