BGR-V 20150324. Byg's Grim Reality (Supply & Command Series): Guides, Updates & Optional Extras

[Chola_Kingdom]

Maybe I gave too many options and made it complicated. The instructions are in the 1st post in purple for the latest version. The latest auto installer is Byg's Grim Reality 2 Setup.zip

thanks mate i really appreciate it

[tonedog]

and just to add to my earlier post, i normally play total war with a mate in hotseat MP campaigns. in hotseat we resolve all battles via auto calculate. do these excellent supply/trait features apply to auto calculate results or are they merely for actual battles played out?

[Byg]

@Byg
Why not create a weather event in the area, without actually explaining it in the traits lists...this way the player will have to figure it out that the two are connected...

Like uhm...a random event, say 20% chance that there will be some weather effect on any given general...
Or maybe go beyond weather affecting things & introduce some random events...like; supply theft (some units in the army have secretly taken more rations than they are allowed) food poisoning, too much wine (your troops have drank too much wine and have so and so effects)
Well...you get the idea....

I like to explain the weather so that a decision has to be taken by the player. i.e
It's a heavy snowstorm (so perhaps no foraging), I'm low on supplies and Kiev is still 4 turns away...I think I'll go back, resupply and try again later.

Yes, you could have a drunken army, say after a great victory, for a turn.

[Byg]

and just to add to my earlier post, i normally play total war with a mate in hotseat MP campaigns. in hotseat we resolve all battles via auto calculate. do these excellent supply/trait features apply to auto calculate results or are they merely for actual battles played out?

Good point. I assume so, but truthfully have no idea. I assume so because a general's stars are taken into account so there is no reason why morale should not be too. Both are controlled by traits.

[tonedog]

i downloaded the auto installer at the bottom of the first post of this thread but when i run it i get an error message! the only thing ive adjusted is that ive made this mod run at 1 turn per year. what am i doin wrong?

[nerazzurri]

What error message are you getting?

[Chola_Kingdom]

i downloaded the auto installer at the bottom of the first post of this thread but when i run it i get an error message! the only thing ive adjusted is that ive made this mod run at 1 turn per year. what am i doin wrong?

yep truei got this problem too it's from the desc_strat txt and it says childrens missing so i put the default desc_strat from ss.3.2
btw mate your mod is awsome you should be in CA Center

[tonedog]

BGRT.exe - common language runtime debugging services.

process id= 0x9a0(2464) thread id=0x3b4 (948)

click ok to terminate or cancel to debug.

tried clicking both to no avail. it then says there's a problem with the installer package, never seen this before
ive managed to get it workkin after manually installing it

[Byg]

May I suggest anyone experiencing this just use the manual installation method Using the file in the 1st post Byg's Grim Realit 2, as opposed to Byg's Grim Reality 2 Setup.

BTW changing turn per year isn't necessary if you use my strat because it does this for you.

[Lord Finga]

hi Byg, like your submod very much, made me dl SS 3.2 . great work! but there a two things. the supply thing doesn't have effects on troops without a general, at least that's what i noticed.

and how does this supply-ship thing work? the information in the first post concerning this are little .... rare . nevertheless, great mod! eagerly awaiting the dlv version .

[nerazzurri]

It could be that the installation directory is incorrect (it should be the M2TW directory that SS is installed in), however I can't be certain from that. I've uploaded a new version that should display a more meaningful error message here:-

http://nerazzurri.net/ss/Byg%27s%20G...02%20Setup.zip

(Note that it will still show the other error messages because if I actually handle the error the installer will complete but it won't actually have finished installing everything)

[Byg]

hi Byg, like your submod very much, made me dl SS 3.2 . great work! but there a two things. the supply thing doesn't have effects on troops without a general, at least that's what i noticed.

and how does this supply-ship thing work? the information in the first post concerning this are little .... rare . nevertheless, great mod! eagerly awaiting the dlv version .

Fortunately you would be unwise to use an army without a general as they tend to turn to rebels. They are unguided armies without a supply train so who can blame them for running away?

Your Generals will begin the game with full supplies.

Your supplies will be used up according to the time your army spends in the field.

Suppose you have taken Alexandria and wish to march to Benghazi, a huge trek across the desert. You could take your men by sea, but enemy ships dominate.

Your first turn takes you to your border. You can forage your own regions for 3 turns before using up your supplies so so far no supplies used.

Next turn you begin to cross into enemy/neutral land. The first season/turn you march uses no supplies. You forage, meaning you steal from the population, which it is historically correct.

Next season that region is ravaged so you use up a 1/4 of your supplies reprieving the population for a season and continue your march.

The popultaion having been reprieved last turn now enables you to forage once more. So outside your own land you march, forage, march consume own supplies and repeat.

You realise that supplies may not last the distance to Benghazi and so you can either turn back or send for supplies. Either another general can bring them fast by land or you can march along the coast and send a ship.

You decide to send a ship running the gauntlet of enemy vessels, hoping it wont be spotted en route.

The ship reaches your army and as it wasnt attacked your general boards and ficilitates resupply.

Next turn your General has resupplied and rejoins the army. You took two risks here: The ship could have been attacked and you would have lost your general or your unattended army, left without supplies may have rebelled.

[Ciaran S]

Excellent concept!
I really look forward to testing it, it should make things a lot more challenging.

One comment on turns per year and aging, though. This is a very common misconception, but the years per turn ratio does not influence the lifetime of a character. Character age is controlled by the change from winter to summer (without further scripting that is every two turns). This is hardcoded. So in the vanilla game (two years per turn) a General with an age of 60 displayed on his character sheet will have been around for 120 turns or 240 campaign map years. The turns per year ratio that can be changed in the descr_strat only controls the campaign map years (important for events), not the age progression of characters.

[Lord Finga]

aha! thx for the quick answer! now i understand the system ! so that means i can take a ship from my fleet and let the general board and after a round he is fully supplied. but can i do the same thing again with the same ship without sending the ship back to one of my own ports? or do ships have infinite supplies and can supply as many armys and as often as they want without sailing back to the home port?

[Hanny]

Just a thought, had you considerd making a unit to represent the logistical tail of the army itself?, instead of tagging the character as the source of supply, you then tag this unit instead, which has next to no combat ability and could be reprsented by mules/wagons etc visually.

[Byg]

Excellent concept!
I really look forward to testing it, it should make things a lot more challenging.

One comment on turns per year and aging, though. This is a very common misconception, but the years per turn ratio does not influence the lifetime of a character. Character age is controlled by the change from winter to summer (without further scripting that is every two turns). This is hardcoded. So in the vanilla game (two years per turn) a General with an age of 60 displayed on his character sheet will have been around for 120 turns or 240 campaign map years. The turns per year ratio that can be changed in the descr_strat only controls the campaign map years (important for events), not the age progression of characters.

I realise that, but thanks for making the point in a very clear manner. I was really just saying that for the purposes of traits think about them (timewise) as relating to your generals life, not the campaign turns.

aha! thx for the quick answer! now i understand the system ! so that means i can take a ship from my fleet and let the general board and after a round he is fully supplied. but can i do the same thing again with the same ship without sending the ship back to one of my own ports? or do ships have infinite supplies and can supply as many armys and as often as they want without sailing back to the home port?

Ships will always have supplies ready for armies.

EDIT: Your General will resupply at 50% per turn, same for cities.

Just a thought, had you considerd making a unit to represent the logistical tail of the army itself?, instead of tagging the character as the source of supply, you then tag this unit instead, which has next to no combat ability and could be reprsented by mules/wagons etc visually.

That is exactly what i have been thinking. My exact thoughts were to use a "bought General unit" rather than a family member and make a new unit card and alter the graphics in battles so that the unit would appears as a dozen wagons or a bunch of mules with packs.
The problem would be that in order to have the supplies effect the army that unit would need to be the general and you don't want to charge into battle as a bunch of wagons and mules...

[Hanny]

I

That is exactly what i have been thinking. My exact thoughts were to use a "bought General unit" rather than a family member and make a new unit card and alter the graphics in battles so that the unit would appears as a dozen wagons or a bunch of mules with packs.
The problem would be that in order to have the supplies effect the army that unit would need to be the general and you don't want to charge into battle as a bunch of wagons and mules...

The Ai will use this unit as it uses all generals, (since you can only tag charcters with supply and only generals units can be charcters) so i guess the answer is to make the units stats very wierd, lots of hit point to make it stay alive, next to no combat attack so it does not cause any casualties, and very, very, very poor morale so it runs from the start. make sure to place it in deep rear in the AI formation file, so that it cant see anything and will be less likly to get involved as well and you might have it sorted.

You could also try doing it as a siege engine, the baggage guards being the combat element and the baggage the non combat crew, in that way you get a real slow movement unit, and agin if morale is real low, prone to run away and leave the wagons/mules etc. Not sure what the Ai would do with a general unit that is a siege unit, my guess is that it wont charge all over the place, but act more like a siege piece, but dont really know.

One for all or cultural specific?, wagons for some, camels/mules for others?, proabaly easiest to do one for all, saves on unit slots.

[ME2_junky]

@Byg
This reputation destroyed business is really uncalled for...
The A.I. sieges with crap armies too many times & sometimes for unforseen reasons...I do not think giving such severe penalties for sallying is necessary...

Maybe decreasing the chance of the trait's occurance??
Say 30% of the time? just incase I wasn't paying attention?

Last night my turk garrison in Iconium was besieged by a HUGE byzantine army. I had no chance to attack it anwyays. I had 6 units, crap militia. Byzantine army had full stack. My SINGLE archer unit set their ram on fire, my general attack the catapult by himself and killed them all before being reduced to nothing (2 body guards) and after a very hard fight with 4 militia defending against ladders I won the fight cause the Byzantine army ran out of infantry.

Does that really mean I have to get a nasty dishonour trait? thats not fair Byg...have mercy...

[Byg]

The Ai will use this unit as it uses all generals, (since you can only tag charcters with supply and only generals units can be charcters) so i guess the answer is to make the units stats very wierd, lots of hit point to make it stay alive, next to no combat attack so it does not cause any casualties, and very, very, very poor morale so it runs from the start. make sure to place it in deep rear in the AI formation file, so that it cant see anything and will be less likly to get involved as well and you might have it sorted.

You could also try doing it as a siege engine, the baggage guards being the combat element and the baggage the non combat crew, in that way you get a real slow movement unit, and agin if morale is real low, prone to run away and leave the wagons/mules etc. Not sure what the Ai would do with a general unit that is a siege unit, my guess is that it wont charge all over the place, but act more like a siege piece, but dont really know.

One for all or cultural specific?, wagons for some, camels/mules for others?, proabaly easiest to do one for all, saves on unit slots.

Most of this would not be a problem because I would not give supplies to the AI as it would have no idea how to use them.

The biggest problem remains that the supply unit (whilst being able to look like anything) needs to be the general in command of the army.
Whilst looking like supplies it can't run up and down the line encouraging the troops or charging the enemy.

If you could have an ordinary looking general as the general and another kind of general unit as the supplies AND the real general could 'detect' the traits of the supply unit then all would be ok. But sadly this is not the case.

@Byg
This reputation destroyed business is really uncalled for...
The A.I. sieges with crap armies too many times & sometimes for unforseen reasons...I do not think giving such severe penalties for sallying is necessary...

Maybe decreasing the chance of the trait's occurance??
Say 30% of the time? just incase I wasn't paying attention?

Last night my turk garrison in Iconium was besieged by a HUGE byzantine army. I had no chance to attack it anwyays. I had 6 units, crap militia. Byzantine army had full stack. My SINGLE archer unit set their ram on fire, my general attack the catapult by himself and killed them all before being reduced to nothing (2 body guards) and after a very hard fight with 4 militia defending against ladders I won the fight cause the Byzantine army ran out of infantry.

Does that really mean I have to get a nasty dishonour trait? thats not fair Byg...have mercy...

Decreasing the chance "say 30%" is a reasonable possibility. You must remember to check your generals traits when besieged though in either case.

Also remember to have some army available to relieve a siege from the outside even if its one unit in a nearby fort defending your frontier.

Sieges were very rarely broken by sallying.

Your army, had it been up against huge odds, would not get the trait as I thought it best to reward such gallant behaviour. You must therefore have fought an army that was not twice as strong as your garrison.

In detail:

What should happen is that you will get only the 1st level of this trait whilst you are being besieged. It's your general's punishment for letting an enemy get to your city without being intercepted. Your army will be a little weakened by this.

This trait will disappear though once you are no longer besieged. Hopefully this further encourages to fight from outside your settlement.

If your general's army is less than 50% of the strength of the enemy. The trait assumes you can get no help and are doing the best you can and it will not punish you for sallying alone by giving you the severest form of the trait.

If your general's army strength is closer to that of the enemy then he will lose reputation for sallying alone. The idea being what kind of foolish general takes on a sally in search of glorifying himself when waiting sensibly for reinforcements would save many lives.


Did you actually check that you got the trait?

True though, I have little mercy...

ps. sounds like a damn good battle.

EDIT: Hang on a minute, you weren't sallying if they were using their ladders therefore you wont have gained the trait you refer to...just the first level and then only temporarily.

[ME2_junky]

Well...I was just unhappy with things...
I checked again and the general had the trait BEFORE the battle.
I did not dare attack the besieging army & treid to bring reinforcements, they were only a turn away when the A.I. attacked.

So it is not really a fault of the system...but the general should have his reputation amended (in real life)

The battle result was "close victory" despite knowing, as a player, that it was a phenominal fight. Sometimes the game's assessment of a battle is totally off.
True I won by a hair's width. But if they would have managed to breach the gate, they had some 4 missile cavalry units + 1 other cavalry left and by then I had 6 units with combined numbers of 150, out of which 100 were archers.

If I was 20 years younger I would stomp my feet...but since I'm not I'll just give you a mean look.

I got so upset I resorted to cheating and removed the trait via console

Oh the shame



In any case, in my opinion a 100 chance is too harsh...while I do believe a player should be challanged, a 100% chance of gaining this trait might cause some false positives...