SSHIP - General Discussion

[Gercog]

I mean the characters that appear on the script, at the time when they lived historically.
I remember even in the vanilla was such a script, when there were Wallace Saladin, Richard the Lionheart ...
It would be very cool, what do you think about this?)

[Larkin]

Well adding next heir ancillary would kinda kill the civil war stuff, or at least make it very easy for the player to handle it. Not sure if I'm a fan of this. Perhaps a small increase in authority would be possible, So the chosen guy is favored in some sort of way, but not guaranteed heir.

But this is really silly. It means that practically everyone is a usurper and there are constant civil wars. Which isn't historical at all. And really it doesn't have much effect except for a few random generals going rebel and becoming totally useless, which is just annoying more than anything else.

Is there some way to script so that if a general has, say, 2x the authority of the selected heir, he will become a usurper? But otherwise the designated heir will succeed?

[Lifthrasir]

Well adding next heir ancillary would kinda kill the civil war stuff, or at least make it very easy for the player to handle it. Not sure if I'm a fan of this. Perhaps a small increase in authority would be possible, So the chosen guy is favored in some sort of way, but not guaranteed heir.

@Gercog: We actually have a lot of historical characters in the game. Almost all of france/england/hre/scandinavia are historically accurate characters. We obviously can't implement characters who weren't alive at this time.

In that case, could it be better to add the RLC submod or to adapt it in some way?
Actually, most of the leaders during the Middle Ages tried to control the lineage for their proper family and for the most important noble families, not to keep a "pure blood" but to strenghten their authority and to make alliances. Most of the Noble families accepted this as they hoped to get a better position. Also and especially in the early era, the Pope could even approve or refuse some mariage proposals (for Catholic factions of course).

The other reason that make me think about RLC is also that the role of the women during the Middle Ages is underestimated from my point of view. That's a shame that once a family member dies, the other can not get married again in the game. Also, to strenghten an alliance, it would be great if the marriage proposals include princesses from the allied faction. Then, if you accept, you get better relations and stronger alliance with that faction but if you refuse, then your alliance can be in tatter. If you're allied with several factions and accept the marriage proposal from one of them, then you could upset the others. The last benefit of that is for the players who want to keep a "pure" lineage as it would give them the option to choose only brides from their own faction. I know that the feature already exists somehow in the game but I'm sure that any improvement (to make it more essential) would make it much better regarding the game immersion.

However, this is just hypothetic. My knowledge in scripting is not good enough to know if it can be done or not.

[Larkin]

While it'd be cool to factor in that kind of marriage system, I think just being able to have control over who your heir is is more important.

Currently even if you have a suitable heir, there's no guarantee they'll rise to the throne - and often won't. I haven't had a non-usurper as my FL since my original heir died, 200 turns ago... and it's the same for most AI factions. The rightful heir should always be next in line unless there is incredibly high authority/popularity whatever for an ambitious general.

[Lifthrasir]

While it'd be cool to factor in that kind of marriage system, I think just being able to have control over who your heir is is more important.

Currently even if you have a suitable heir, there's no guarantee they'll rise to the throne - and often won't. I haven't had a non-usurper as my FL since my original heir died, 200 turns ago... and it's the same for most AI factions. The rightful heir should always be next in line unless there is incredibly high authority/popularity whatever for an ambitious general.

I've been thinking about that point during the last few days.
Actually, keeping a "pure blood" lineage was not the goal of the factions' leaders at that time, at least, not in the meaning in how we can think about it at present.
I have no information about Orthodox factions but I guess it should be quite similar as the others, especially the Western factions. For most of the leaders/kings at that period, the 1st son or oldest son (who could reach the adult age), was supposed to be the next leader/king. For some specific factions, the Heir had also to be elected/choosen by a Council made with the most important Noble families and Bishops/archbishops. That's why sometimes, the leader/king was not the best suitable candidate and why unrest, rebellion and even civil wars happened.

Beside that and about mariage, they were concluded to let the leader/king control the lineage for his own family but also for the most important/powerful noble families in order to keep them under his control. That "rule" was also accepted by these families most of the time as it could provide to them a better position beside the leader/king. Mariages were also used to make alliances. That's why, in case when there' was no direct successor for a crown, several pretenders could claim the crown, justifying it by their family links or marriages (they could sometimes go back to several generations). F.e. that's why the 100 years war started between England and France. On top of that and for Catholic factions, the Church/Pope could refuse a mariage or divorce (unless there was a family/blood relation between the King and his wife). Note that is a bit more complicated for Muslim factions as the faction leader could be, easily and often, replaced/killed by a powerful general or noble. I still have to make some researches about them.

I'm not an expert in scripting but I guess that it should be quite complicated to represent these facts in game, especially without making the scrip too heavy (and so increasing significally the AI turn time)

[Larkin]

I can see your predicament. And there is perhaps no easy solution. But I think it is apparent the current system is a little too messed up.

[Lifthrasir]

You might be right but it costs nothing to see if it's possible or not to improve the actual system

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

Agree . Trying does not hurt at all.

Btw I was wondering are there any plans to make changes to Muslim factions ? (Example bring Saladin-Era units to Egypt). Because right now are of the rosters with the exception of Rûm feel kinda of the same. I get it that those were the units of the era in the Middle East but it would be nice to see some diversity even if it is a minor one.

I love Egypt as a historian the Ayyubid Dynasty (1171 - 1341) has always fascinated me of course in the game it starts as the Fatimid Caliphate (909 - 1171) but maybe bring a script that spawns Saladin in 1164 or if the last heir of the Fatimids dies maybe its only a suggestion.

I

[Lifthrasir]

We have already discussed about that with Ichon. I know that he has already done some work on that point. But unfortunately, Ichon seems quite busy with real life stuff these days and I have no news from him for a while.
Regarding Egypt especially, I have some ideas to make that faction more "unique" but I still have to look deeper to see if it's feasible or not. Same remark for Cumans and perhaps Scots as well.
For now, my main goal is to fix my laptop again to be able to resume my work. I just hope that my "old lap" (8 years old) is not dying slowly.

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

We have already discussed about that with Ichon. I know that he has already done some work on that point. But unfortunately, Ichon seems quite busy with real life stuff these days and I have no news from him for a while.
Regarding Egypt especially, I have some ideas to make that faction more "unique" but I still have to look deeper to see if it's feasible or not. Same remark for Cumans and perhaps Scots as well.
For now, my main goal is to fix my laptop again to be able to resume my work. I just hope that my "old lap" (8 years old) is not dying slowly.

I see . That'ts great news. I'm here for the long run take all the time you need I prefer a polished work than a rush one. Do what you must.

[PolishPrince]

I wasnt sure where to ask this question but when i downloaded SSHIP, the file came up with nothing to open it (by that i mean like winrar or 7zip or something) i could find anything that could open a installer. so how do i get it to install...

[Lifthrasir]

If you're meaning the "SSHIP v0.8.2 - full install", that's just a zip file. To install it, just unzip it in a temporary folder and merge the data folder obtained with the one located in your SS6.3 folder.
If you get nothing, you may have encountered a problem during the download. Have you ried to download it again?

[PolishPrince]

i will try to re download and do what you say.

[PolishPrince]

err, im not 100% sure what you mean by unzip.... im in 7zip and i cant see a unzip button.

[PolishPrince]

if extract is unzip then i did this to another folder and it just copied the files.

[Lifthrasir]

By unzip, I mean extract. I used winrar but I did it in zip format. That shouldn't be a problem if you use 7zip.
So basically, extract the content of the zip file to a temporary folder. You should have a folder named data. Then copy that data folder into your SS6.3 main folder (where there's already a data folder).
You should be asked if you want to merge the both data folders. Click yes.
Then, you should be asked if you want to replace some files, click yes again.
That's it, that should work. Don't forget to fix the sounds, depending on the game version you're using (English or not).
Hope it helps.

[PolishPrince]

Thanks, I didn't know you straight up copy it into the SS6.4 folder. I though it had its own little folder.

[Gercog]

Are there any good news for us fans of this beautiful mod? When can we hope to see the new 0.9 version?

[Lifthrasir]

We should be able to release another patch soon, probably v0.8.3. MWY is doing the last adjustments. I'm not able to give you a release date yet but I hope to be alble to do so soon.

[Gercog]

Ok super! v0.8.3. sounds good too!)
What will be corrected or added in the new 0.8.3. version, if not a secret?