SSHIP - General Discussion

[Annúminas]

will there be after 1.0v release, faction changes?

[Lifthrasir]

There's no faction changes planned for now.

[jurcek1987]

Armouries I think should be made more expensive to build and cost of upgrading units should be higher aswell. High quality armour was very expensive.

[Lord Baratheon]

Hey guys, I'm loving this version of SS. Thanks for the great work. Just have a few suggestions for any future releases.

1. I really enjoy the inclusion of the soundtracks from the original Medieval Total War. Great nostalgia factor there. But this track is missing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aztd...nDtZh&index=11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QQB...jSVDnuCxrnDtZh

(Its one track. Uploader has split it in two)

2 Why is Scotland the only faction using it's modern flag instead of it's Royal coat of Arms?

Scotland should be using the Lion Rampant. I know it's already the faction symbol but it should be the banner too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_...rd_of_Scotland

[Lifthrasir]

Scotland is one of the factions that really need to be more or less entirely reworked. Nothing is historically accurate (units, flags and banners, etc...).
I'm convinced that Scotland deserves a better representation in game. That will come

[RexTrust]

I just startet a new campaign with Lithuania, to see if the immigration-tactics works with SSHIP. So i moved all my army to the west to take sweden/norway. a couple rounds after my original settlements were taken over either by rebels oder by poland/kiev. then, again after a couple of rounds, a Lithuan uprising in my original homelands took place - i got 3 or 4 pretty good armys and decent generals, which was pretty nice.

but: i also got a nearly full stack cavalry army near Georgia at the coast of the caspian sea. if i manage it, i will upload a screenshot.

is that historicaly accurate? Lithuania armys near the caspoan sea?

[GenPatton]

A few questions:

1) Im playing several test campaigns at the same time with muslim factions. I need to know if there is something one can do about corruption in city type settlements... I dont see law buildings reducing corruption, I dont see any change either when I ocupy, sack or exterminate the same settlement, certain characters reduce it a bit but it's always there, so far I've noticed huge corruption in Tunis, Mecca and a few others. This is really frustrating me, I need to know if there is something I am suppose to do, can it be prevented or can it be removed?

2) About unrrest and squalor I'm starting to think there are not enough law and health buildings, because even after building everything, city type settlements still get tones of unrest and squalor as the population gets bigger... I don't think its realistic at all that a large/huge city can grow from something like 2.000 to 20.000 or 80.000 (whatever) in less then 10 or 15 turns

3) What about a building or something that could force the population to a desired number? I would like to be able to prevent the population from growing, like noone else after a certain number would be allowed in the city. Or what about being able to banish a certain amount of the population? I've read that Jerusalem kept a population of no more then 2.000 people for decades or a century after it was taken in one of its periods.

4) What is going on with the production in the game? Has the way it works been tempered with since vanilla or SS? I ask because I keep seeing huge crashes in production repeteadly along the last campaigns. My last campaign as the Byzantines I had to face a crash somewhere after turn 30, the same happens somewhere after turn 60 and then after turn 90... then I had huge prosperity, i got to 220.000 gold and then in somewhere after turn 160 it completely crashed and before turn 170 I was negative (-)100.000... excuse me but... WTF. I stopped playing it, i felt like there was nothing i could do about it... it was ridiculous.

[nvm]

Not really. And they don't need it either anyway as most of them are located in rich regions with a lot of large/huge cities.
There is one thing you can do right now though. Due to a bug, the law and happiness penalty which the wall buildings start to give after an usurper seizes the throne of your faction is not removed after the crisis has passed. If that's happened in your game, you can feel free to go to export_descr_buildings and remove it without feeling like a cheater.

You could say that these public order penalties make it actually necessary to keep some of your generals as governors, but they're more of a liability currently. In large/huge cities where they are most likely to be, they have a chance to become corrupt just for being there, for the city having a bank, a high enough town hall level, and for being far away enough from the capital. That trait can make your governor an easily-bribed liability, and there's nothing you can do besides not putting them in big cities.

[GenPatton]

you can feel free to go to export_descr_buildings and remove it without feeling like a cheater.

i have no idea what to edit there, im just a simple player...

You could say that these public order penalties make it actually necessary to keep some of your generals as governors, but they're more of a liability currently. In large/huge cities where they are most likely to be, they have a chance to become corrupt just for being there, for the city having a bank, a high enough town hall level, and for being far away enough from the capital. That trait can make your governor an easily-bribed liability, and there's nothing you can do besides not putting them in big cities.

Ye unrrest and corruption make the game really frustrating to play, i dont remember seeing this in vanilla or SS 6.4 I really dont think these things are an improvement at all, the ideal sometimes seems to not have any generals in the biggest settlements like you said, but if they have corruption then i try to minimize it by putting a "good" general there, but then he can get corrupt or get bad traits.... like it just gets worst and worst, there's nothing one can do... its frustrating, its taking all the fun away...

[Swarbs]

1) Im playing several test campaigns at the same time with muslim factions. I need to know if there is something one can do about corruption in city type settlements... I dont see law buildings reducing corruption, I dont see any change either when I ocupy, sack or exterminate the same settlement, certain characters reduce it a bit but it's always there, so far I've noticed huge corruption in Tunis, Mecca and a few others. This is really frustrating me, I need to know if there is something I am suppose to do, can it be prevented or can it be removed?

I've found law buildings reduce corruption very well, although I think you need to get them right up to the top end to reduce it meaningfully. If you boost law from 5% to 20% it doesn't have that much impact, but boosting it from 55% to 60% pretty much eliminates any remaining corruption even if you are far from the capital. You need gallows, max barracks and max city hall, plus raze any buildings like inns or high level markets which reduce law, plus recruit and use enough assassins and spies to get the headquarters for those guilds, which give 5% global law bonuses.

2) About unrrest and squalor I'm starting to think there are not enough law and health buildings, because even after building everything, city type settlements still get tones of unrest and squalor as the population gets bigger... I don't think its realistic at all that a large/huge city can grow from something like 2.000 to 20.000 or 80.000 (whatever) in less then 10 or 15 turns

That's part of the challenge of the game - unrest in conquered cities was a historical fact unless the conqueror brought sufficient troops and numbers to control the population and surrounding area. It's not supposed to be easy! Revolts in captured cities are all part of the challenge imo, and force you to think a bit more strategically.

Rapid growth is also fairly historical, particularly in large cities with walls. As soon as they were taken in a war, people would usually begin flooding back in from the surrounding countryside taking advantage of the walls for protection against the war that was usually still ongoing.

The only 'solution' I would think about in this situation would be (if possible) adding the equivalent of a raze option to a city when capturing it. The raze option destroys all the walls, reducing the city to a village which has to be rebuilt from the ground up, or maybe to a town with basic wooden wall, and all higher level structures also destroyed. That allows a conqueror to decide to either keep the rich city with all its buildings and income but the associated unrest, or burn it down and start again, with less unrest but also less income and needing more money to rebuild all the infrastructure.

[bigdaddy1204]

I think city assaults may be broken in Medieval 2 Total War.

I noticed that my units often get absolutely shredded when trying to climb the walls with ladders. My heavy infantry units such as swordsmen will lose against weaker enemy units defending the wall, such as spearmen. This is very annoying. I have often seen supposedly 'elite' infantry units such as Dismounted Piast Nobles (Poland) lose against inferior militia and mercenary spearmen units (Lithuania). It says 'Defeat seems certain'. I'm thinking, "What the hell?! My units should be winning easily against this enemy, instead they are losing horribly. Wtf!"

I also noticed that there is a problem, sometimes when my unit gets onto the wall, they stop and just stand there getting slaughtered. They don't fight back. They just stand there, letting the enemy units kill them. It's like they are frozen. I noticed this happens when the walls get crowded, when there are a lot of enemies already standing on the wall. It's annoying, as your entire unit basically commits suicide by jumping onto the wall in ones or twos, or just stands there and lets themselves be killed. This totally ruins the game.

It's not a new problem - I've noticed it a long time ago. But I found it particularly irritating yesterday, as I tried to capture the same city from Lithuania three times and kept losing because my units wouldn't fight. It's particularly frustrating, because the units I am using were very expensive and should clearly be able to win easily against the enemies they are fighting.

Is there anything that can be done about this, or is it hard-coded into the Medieval 2 Total War engine?

[Lifthrasir]

The only thing I can see at least for the units on the wall is to make them enlarged to give more space for deployment. I'm not a specialist on the settlements themselves and I honestly don't know if it's only relating to SS or to the original game as well.

[Dekhatres]

I think city assaults may be broken in Medieval 2 Total War.

I noticed that my units often get absolutely shredded when trying to climb the walls with ladders. My heavy infantry units such as swordsmen will lose against weaker enemy units defending the wall, such as spearmen. This is very annoying. I have often seen supposedly 'elite' infantry units such as Dismounted Piast Nobles (Poland) lose against inferior militia and mercenary spearmen units (Lithuania). It says 'Defeat seems certain'. I'm thinking, "What the hell?! My units should be winning easily against this enemy, instead they are losing horribly. Wtf!"

I also noticed that there is a problem, sometimes when my unit gets onto the wall, they stop and just stand there getting slaughtered. They don't fight back. They just stand there, letting the enemy units kill them. It's like they are frozen. I noticed this happens when the walls get crowded, when there are a lot of enemies already standing on the wall. It's annoying, as your entire unit basically commits suicide by jumping onto the wall in ones or twos, or just stands there and lets themselves be killed. This totally ruins the game.

It's not a new problem - I've noticed it a long time ago. But I found it particularly irritating yesterday, as I tried to capture the same city from Lithuania three times and kept losing because my units wouldn't fight. It's particularly frustrating, because the units I am using were very expensive and should clearly be able to win easily against the enemies they are fighting.

Is there anything that can be done about this, or is it hard-coded into the Medieval 2 Total War engine?

i saw that quite a lot of times and it's not always like that, most of the time some enemy units also get frozen


elite inf units getting destroyed by militias is the reason i cant get to play SS 6.4 for long, inf units die so fast and i never managed to balance it and get the same results i get with 6.1, eventually i found out the problem to be in the animations, in SS 6.3/6.4 soldiers attack attack attack attack attack, in vanilla med2 and SS 6.1 it's bash attack bash taunt attack, basically in earlier versions soldiers attacked less and thus died less, so now what has this to do with your situation ? well here's the thing, if the soldiers didnt keep only attacking and instead also used those useless shield bashes your piast nobles wouldnt die so fast and they would make a breach without taking so many casualties then proceed to slaughter those spearmen, soldiers behave quite diferently in med2 and 6.1, the shield bash for example was just one of the many "useless" animations, they also had other like taunting, they would taunt their enemy during combat, sometimes a soldier would step back from the fight for no reason, other times he would just wave around his sword at the enemy so basically soldiers just messed around more and died less and therefore unit quality had more time to make a diference


another big problem is how small the space between infantry is, they are basically packed, and they stay that way all the time, so what this means is that it's very easy for melee battles to degenerate into mosh pits where elite inf is getting hit in the back and die

[Lifthrasir]

Do you mean that putting back the animations from SS6.1 would improve that problem? If yes, I guess that's the right time to do it as I'm working on them.

[Dekhatres]

Do you mean that putting back the animations from SS6.1 would improve that problem? If yes, I guess that's the right time to do it as I'm working on them.

kind of hard to answer, i personally dont like the current melee fighting speed, i havent seen any complaint for that till now so i suppose it's not big deal for most ppl, it would be enouth if you could tell me how to do that [reimplement old animations and have the vanilla combat]

EDIT: maybe you can do it for me ? i see the idx and dat files are not big

[Lifthrasir]

There's no simple way to do it. Check these tutos:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-MS3D-for-M2TW
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...different-mods

The 1st one is more complete than the 2nd one (I still have to improve it)

[jurcek1987]

Is the new version still on course to be released this month? My Med2 is getting a bit restless

[Dekhatres]

CTDs, CTDs everywhere! XD anyway thank you for those tutorials Lifthrasir

[bigdaddy1204]

CTDs, CTDs everywhere! XD anyway thank you for those tutorials Lifthrasir

Has anyone else here played 'Anatolian Principalities' mod? I loved it and was very excited about it...but it was full of CTDs and eventually I gave up. I'm glad that SSHIP is so stable - I don't think it's ever crashed on me. I did spot a rebel army with a shiny silver general, though! It looked similar to this:

[Lifthrasir]

CTDs, CTDs everywhere! XD anyway thank you for those tutorials Lifthrasir

Animations are quite tricky. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to work on them.

Is the new version still on course to be released this month? My Med2 is getting a bit restless

I'm doing my best. However, duer to some real life problems, it might be delayed.

@ bigdaddy1204, can you give more details? Which units are concerned?