SSHIP - General Discussion

[Reaper_of_Souls]

Hey, i've post this on the SS forum (bug reports & technical help) but no luck so i might try here.

First of all i've install SSHIP and i would like to create my own general(s) & princess but when i do that i get CTD upon trying to play as jerusalem (crusader states)
Why is this happening? Have i done anything wrong?

[Lifthrasir]

This is not the correct place for such question. You should have posted your problem in the Workshop.

[Reaper_of_Souls]

This is not the correct place for such question. You should have posted your problem in the Workshop.

Sorry, but i can't move it. I don't know how

[Lifthrasir]

No worries, I've asked a LM to do it. But you'll need to post it again in the Workshop

[bigdaddy1204]

@ bigdaddy1204, can you give more details? Which units are concerned?

Yes, it was a rebel army in Caesarea (Kayseri) in Turkey. The rebel general was the only unit affected. It was a bodyguard unit. The rebels seemed to be Turkish.

It happened early in my campaign. I was playing as the Turks of Rum. I laid seige to the castle of Caesarea. The rebel army inside decided to attack me. They came out of the city and I saw their general had silver all over, he looked like those horses in the screenshot.

[+Marius+]

Check these tutos:

Heheh, tutos.

[Taylor17]

Hi just wanted to say excited about the release and looking forward to it! SSHIP and Bellum Crucis are the most outstanding mods ever made for M2TW. But what I was wanting to ask was, is there any type of small preview that I've missed on the upcoming release maybe? Bc I haven't seen anything but I know the release should be sometime soon as long as everything is as planned of coarse. But if there isn't one could it be possible to perhaps upload the new changelong just to get an idea of the new aspects and changes? Just a suggestion keep up the great work!!

[Lifthrasir]

Some map adjustments can be found here.
Some new units models can be found here.
Some new animations can be found here.

This is just what we've done so far. More should come.

[Taylor17]

That all looks fantastic great work!!! Thank you for sharing that. But Is there going to be any changes to the gameplay and whole game, such as family tree traits and ancillaries and other tweaks, scripts, new factions and faction changes and Reskins of any type, and just changes to the campaign gameplay mechanics?

[Lifthrasir]

No new faction planned for now. No reskin. For the rest, I let MWY to answer.

[jurcek1987]

I'm doing my best. However, duer to some real life problems, it might be delayed.

Take all the time you need, I know it's gonna be worth waiting for

[bigdaddy1204]

I'm doing my best. However, due to some real life problems, it might be delayed

Hey, don't worry man. Just tell her you're sorry and give her a bit of space, she will be back

[MWY]

Mhh I did a lot of little things..

- I adjusted the roster choices of zengids, and abassids a bit, since they didn't really have a clear path of evolution in their units, I also tried to seperate the roles a bit. Now you get events like the fatimids, which will give you some mamluk units after some time and I think the identity of the factions is a lot more unique.
- Small economic changes
- Revised the recruitment possibilities for jerusalem. Split the units up to several buildings (f.e. for templar units, you need a templar chapter house now), so the whole starting situation is really desperate right now ( and more historically accurate). You will be craving for good soldiers against the streams of muslims.
- Adjusted some boni for buildings, to make some buildings a bit less "always build no matter what".
- Adjusted/lowered unrest and distance to capital a bit.
- Every character on the map is now historically accurate, atleast name-wise. Trait-Wise to some extend.
- Mongols will finally be dangerous. Last time I tested, they almost reached poland.
- Some AI adjustments
- A lot of changes we discussed already.

That's just the most recent stuff though.. I think in general, the game will feel more polished and more historically accurate with the new patch.

[Lifthrasir]

Great MWY. Have you also corrected a bit the stats of their units or the ones for Muslim units which were a bit OP?

[+Marius+]

or the ones for Muslim units which were a bit OP?

This.

Composite bows aren't .50 caliber hand cannons for heaven's sake.
I understand that they have to be more powerful than selfbows, but not THAT powerful and that long ranged.

No horse archer unit should have a range above 90-110.

[MWY]

I have adjusted stats for the muslim cavalry units, aswell as several other units which I came across.

I didn't change horse archer range, since we never really discussed this?!

Somebody did change their range, I think the ranges of the bows are based on a submod which used realistic values? I'm not really sure though.

[Dekhatres]

haha i have already tested and proposed several times the armor rating solution yet everyone be like:



i'd like to see more solutions with tests and results not just guesses that might or might not work

[+Marius+]

Well, here is my ranged units suggestion list;

Mounted crossbowmen, range reduction from 150 to 90-100.
Steppe Kazaks, range damage reduction from 5 to 2.
Yasi Archers, range damage reduction from 5 to 2.
Magyar Cavalry, range damage reduction from 5 to 2.
Hungarian Nobles, range reduction from 170 to 110, range damage reduction from 5 to 3.
Lithuanian cavalry, range reduction from 140 to 100.
Polish Shooters, range reduction from 150 to 90-100.
Longbowmen, range damage reduction from 7 to 5-6.
Yeoman Archers, range damage reduction from 7 to 5-6.
Aventurier, range damage reduction from 12 to 9-10, range reduction from 305* to 180-200. *is the dude giving you range info messing with you or?
Pavise Crossbowmen, range reduction from 270 to 190-200.
Pavise crossbow militia, range reduction from 255 to 180-190.
Genoese Crossbowmen, range reduction from 280 to 190-200.
Genoese Crossbow Militia, range reduction from 270 to 180-190.
Crossbow Militia, range reduction from 230 to 130-150.
Andalusian Archers, range damage reduction from 5 to 4.
Venetian Archers, range damage reduction from 6 to 5.
Georgian dismounted heavy horse archers, range damage reduction from 5 to 4.
EE Crossbow Militia, range reduction from 200 to 130-140.
Retinue Longbowmen, range damage reduction from 8 to 5-6.
Mercenary Pavise Crossbowmen, range reduction from 270 to 190-200.
Free Company Longbowmen, range damage reduction from 7 to 5-6.
Bulgarian Brigands, range damage reduction from 5 to 3.
Mercenary Crossbowmen, range reduction from 240 to 140-160.
Aldari Druzhina, range damage reduction from 6 to 3.
Turkish Horse Archers, range damage reduction from 3 to 2.
Turkomans, range damage reduction from 5 to 2.
Fari Horse Archers, range reduction from 190 to 110-110, range damage reduction from 6 to 3.
Dismounted Fari Archers, range reduction from 210 to 190, range damage reduction from 6 to 5.
Mamluk Archers, range reduction from 180 to 100-110, range damage reduction from 6 to 3.
Dismounted Mamluk Archers, range reduction from 210 to 190, range damage reduction from 6 to 5.
Granadine Crossbow Cavalry, range reduction from 150 to 90-100.
Turkopoles, range damage reduction from 3 to 2.
Akinjis, range damage reduction from 4 to 2.
Ottoman Infantry, range damage reduction from 6 to 5.
Janissary Archers, range damage reduction from 7 to 5, range reduction from 210 to 200.
Berber Archers, range damage reduction from 4 to 3.
Nubian Archers, range reduction from 190 to 160, range damage reduction from 6 to 3.
aor trans nobles, range reduction from 190 to 110, range damage reduction from 5 to 3.
georgian light horse archers, range damage reduction from 4 to 2.
ME Crossbowmen, range reduction from 240 to 130-150.
Hoshiga Horse Archers, range reduction from 180 to 100, range damage reduction from 6 to 3.
Khorchi Horse Archers, range reduction from 190 to 110, range damage reduction from 7 to 3.
Lubchiten Horse Archers, range damage reduction from 7 to 3.
Khabutu Archers, range damage reduction from 6 to 5.
bodyguard georgia, range reduction from 180 to 110, range damage reduction from 8 to 3.
Monaspa Horse Archers, range reduction from 190 to 110, range damage reduction from 7 to 3.
Merguen Archers, range damage reduction from 7 to 6.
Dismounted Khorchi Archers, range damage reduction from 7 to 6, range reduction from 210 to 200.
Urban Crossbow Militia, range reduction from 235 to 130-150.
ME Heavy Archers, range reduction from 210 to 200, range damage reduction from 6 to 5.
Hussites, range reduction from 305 to 200, range damage reduction from 11 to 10.
Mounted Luchniki, range reduction from 160 to 100, range damage reduction from 4 to 2.
Arbalesters, range reduction from 305 to 200, range damage reduction from 12 to 10.
Nukeri Horse Archers, range damage reduction from 7 to 3.
Vlastela, range damage reduction from 7 to 3.
Templar Crossbowmen, range reduction from 250 to 130-150, range damage reduction from 11 to 10.
iqta'dar, range reduction from 190 to 110, range damage reduction from 6 to 3.
Turkish Crossbowmen, range reduction from 280 to 130-150.
Arbalest Militia, range reduction from 255 to 120-150.
Lettish Crossbowmen, range reduction from 240 to 120-150.
Sibyan al Khass, range reduction from 190 to 110, range damage reduction from 6 to 3.
Armored Horsearchers, range reduction from 170 to 100, range damage reduction from 4 to 2.
Cuman Noblemen, range reduction from 200 to 110, range damage reduction from 7 to 3.
Dismounted Bekh Druzhina, range reduction from 220 to 200, range damage reduction from 7 to 5-6.
Pechenegs, range reduction from 4 to 2.
Junior Druzhina, range reduction from 160 to 110.
Cavalarii, range reduction from 170 to 100, range damage reduction from 5 to 2.
Gasmuli, range reduction from 280 to 180-200.
Skythikoi, range damage reduction from 5 to 2.
Scots Guard, range damage reduction from 7 to 6.
Scots longbowmen, range damage reduction from 7 to 6.


Reasoning;

Crossbows;
Crossbows have a shorter draw length and thus compensate that with much higher draw weight, that does not allow them to have longer range that their bow counterparts.
So a light crossbow will have a similar range as a light bow and a heavy crossbow will have a similar range as a heavy bow.

Horse archers;
In order to properly wield a bow on a horse, the bow needs to be of a reasonably light draw weight.
Thus, the horse archer accepts his superiority in mobility while sacrificing the range and power of his bow.


Note, some other archers also need a very slight nerf in order to mitigate my nerfing of the longbow and other elite archers.


*These changes are a result of my own personal testings of the unit roster and are thus subject to my own knowledge and idea of historical accuracy*

[Dekhatres]

^finally

gona run some tests right now

EDIT: 1 unit of heavy archers with 200 range and 5 damage vs 1 unit of foot norman knights with 6 armor and no upgrades = 65 men left the moment knights engage archers, the same test but with 3 upgrades for knights resulted in knights being down to 106 men the moment they reached the archers

with my solution foot norman knights have 12 starting armor and against heavy archers with 210 range and 6 damage the moment they reached the archers they were down to 102 men, with upgrades that boosted knights armor to 15 knights suffered ONLY 2 casualties in total

it also seems that results can vary a bit, with my solution knights have 12 starting armor yet were down to 102 men while default knights with upgrade have 9 armor and were only down to 106 men

important: this is grassy plain, heavy archers with hill advantage might wreck the normans without any knight ever laying a finger on archers

according to me

heavy mail units must have or reach with upgrades atleast 12 armor
partial plate units must have or reach with upgrades atleast 15 armor
full plate units must have or reach with upgrades atleast 18 armor


from my tests

12 armor gives a pretty decent arrow protection
15 armor gives excelent arrow protection
18 armor makes a unit arrow proof

this change would also keep the balance between units the same since you can simply take the points fron defence and put them in armor, with armor ratings this high however AP atribute must go away

[MWY]

Yeah I kinda ignored that because:

a) its a lot of work.

b) it doesnt only change the archer/knight interaction but EVERYTHING.

c) I'm pretty happy with the overall balance of things right now.


Range reduction I somewhat agree with. Armor buffs/archer damage reduction I will test aswell and see. There has to be some kind of motivation to recruit archers or crossbowmen, otherwise we can cut those kind of units alltogether if we implement them like some of you apparently want it.


I don't know what the source for the range values is, but can you reveal yours? I hope lifth has some more information about that aswell.