Warhammer Total War Map

[Son of Horus]

Your post is demagogic to no end, so excuse me if I don't bother.

Of course it's my own personal opinion, I never pretended otherwise. (By the way you've got it quite wrong. I've nothing against the usage of real world languages as a base. I have nothing against Altdorf -a really generic german name- but I would find find Berlin, Merkelberg or Kateperryburg quite out of place)

That word you use, I do not think it means what you think it means. I don't make false claims, or promises, or base those claims on emotion as opposed to reason. Meanwhile, yours however, do. You "don't like" the real world allegory (despite "Bretonnia", "The Empire", "Tilea" "Estalia", "Cathay", "Nippon", with factions allegorical to Aztecs, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, French, British, Germans, Russians, Vikings, Dynasty Warriors, Samurai, Aladdin), where some names like Bilbali of a "minor" factions that are established locations are your complaint?

Stop being so overdramatic, and ridiculous. Stop claiming things.

Sitges? Doesn't exist in Warhammer.
Essen; Generic Germanic sounding name.
Ubrique; doesn't exist in Warhammer.
Bilbali; A town of a minor faction (Estalia) which isn't focused on aside from as flavour text from the main factions.
Bordelaux; "Bordello"+Bordeaux?
Rochefort; doesn't exist in Warhammer.

If you're wanting to make a point, you need to try harder than using hyperbole, and essentially outright lies to do so.

[HigoChumbo]

That word you use, I do not think it means what you think it means. I don't make false claims, or promises, or base those claims on emotion as opposed to reason. Meanwhile, yours however, do. You "don't like" the real world allegory (despite "Bretonnia", "The Empire", "Tilea" "Estalia", "Cathay", "Nippon", with factions allegorical to Aztecs, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, French, British, Germans, Russians, Vikings, Dynasty Warriors, Samurai, Aladdin), where some names like Bilbali of a "minor" factions that are established locations are your complaint?

Stop being so overdramatic, and ridiculous. Stop claiming things.

Sitges? Doesn't exist in Warhammer.
Essen; Generic Germanic sounding name.
Ubrique; doesn't exist in Warhammer.
Bilbali; A town of a minor faction (Estalia) which isn't focused on aside from as flavour text from the main factions.
Bordelaux; "Bordello"+Bordeaux?
Rochefort; doesn't exist in Warhammer.

If you're wanting to make a point, you need to try harder than using hyperbole, and essentially outright lies to do so.

It's not an allegory to name a town in a fantasy world Ubrique after a town in the real world also named Ubrique.

Sitgest exists both in Warhammer (Estalia) and in the real world.

Essen is not just a germanic sounding name, it's also a extremelly iconical industrial node whose name almost immediatly brings up images of Germany's industrial power of the last 2 centuries. I don't know about you, but when slaying orks, Krupp Industries is the last thing I want to come through my mind.

Ubrique exists in Warhammer, it's in Estalia.

Rochefort also exists in Warhammer, it's in Bretonnia.

I could keep going: Nerja, Durango, Vizeaya (Vizcaya), Sahagun, Potes... but then again, I don't have problems with generic names, just with very iconic places that could, in my opinion, break the immersion.


Also, you might want to try harder if you want to call me a liar when you find yourself unable to express an opinion like a mature person:




Now blame the sources if you don't find that historically accurate ¬¬

[Son of Horus]

Find me an official map with those on, cheers.

Hint. You won't.

[HigoChumbo]

Find me an official map with those on, cheers.

Hint. You won't.

If that's so, I'm glad they aren't. as I have already stated several times, I have no problem with the usage of real world languages as a reference, as far as they keep it generic (and that's still not the case of Essen and several other unispired place names which, as far as I'm concerned, appear on the official maps).

[Son of Horus]

Essen is mentioned lightly as the town of origin of the Deaths Heads of Ostermark, and the city of the Chapter House of the Templars of the Everlasting Lights during a fringe sourcebook no longer being printed by GW. That you associate Essen with Katey Perry, Hot Dogs and Miley Cyrus twerking is none of my concern, or the warhammer fantasy at large.

While you're at it, CA, can you take out Karl Franz? He's too much of a Super Saiyan at the minute. I don't like it because he powers up after getting battered and I associate it in my head with something that's irrelevant and I can't distance myself from reality and real world analogies in a fantasy video game. Thanks! Much appreciated, loving this trampling over the lore, keep it up!

[Zharrat]

Cities like Sitges (Sitges), Zaraguz (Zaragoza), Vizeaya (Vizcaya) have never been official, not considered cannon. In fact, there is only two cities which have been considered as official; Bilbali & Magritta.

The others cities have been made by fans or writers of the black library. Estalia has not a lot of history, only the crusades against Araby ("The Reconquistas") and a huge war against a Necrarch (Nourgul) who sieged Magritta.


Here is the biggest official map which covers the entire world of Warhammer Fantasy.

[illathid]

RE: Karl-Franz,

He's a member of house Holswig-Schliestein an obvious reference to the duchy of Schleswig-Holstein. Should that be changed?

[Son of Horus]

Of course. And elves are clearly an allegory to Tolkien! I don't like it, lets call the shmurglepumfs instead, because I don't like how elves are related.

[illathid]

Also Luthor Huss is obviously just an amalgamation of Martin Luther and Jan Hus. Point is that try to strip out the real world references from Warhammer you'd lose most of the setting, and a lot of the humor as well. I'd rather have them embrace the reference. If, for instance, there was a reference to a "Yersei" in Naggaroth, I'd want them to talk about the odd people with orange skin and strange manner of speech.

[HigoChumbo]

That you associate Essen with Katey Perry, Hot Dogs and Miley Cyrus twerking is none of my concern, or the warhammer fantasy at large.

Essen is not just a germanic sounding name, it's also a extremelly iconical industrial node whose name almost immediatly brings up images of Germany's industrial power of the last 2 centuries. I don't know about you, but when slaying orks, Krupp Industries is the last thing I want to come through my mind.

I guess that's not demagogy either. Please do excuse me if I don't partake.

RE: Karl-Franz,

He's a member of house Holswig-Schliestein an obvious reference to the duchy of Schleswig-Holstein. Should that be changed?

Another extremelly uninspired name. Should I go to prison for not liking it?


I'm all in for Warhammer having ironic references, but the simple reason of being a reference does not make them good references. They can also be uninspired and not fun.


You guys can make as much fun as you want, but the fact is that Warhammer, at its birth, was awfully designed in so many levels. GW aknowledged it and has adapted with the time, evolved, improved, a clear example of it being how bad some original models were and how they keep adapting them and releasing new designs). I fail to see why they can't do the same with other parts of the game.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also find amusing how you guys try to ridiculize people who have a different opinion. Makes this look totally not like a school yard. ¬¬

[Son of Horus]

You really don't understand what "demagoguery" means, do you?

Let me intelligize you.

impassioned

appealstotheemotionsandprejudicesofthepopulace.

As for "not partaking", you already have done.

Yeah, I'm all for the "alternative history" thing... but just so you get the idea... just imagine that some towns where named after real towns whose fame come EXCLUSIVELY from the fact that are the birthplace of a participant of Jersey Shore...

I can get places like Carcasonne or Alençon, which even today are known mostly for their medieval architecture, but some others just go too far.

Imagine if the elves had towns like Cleveland or Miami... and that in real life those places were mostly known for some embarrasing junk TV celebrity and you will start getting how I feel.

Do not tell other posters any variant of "shush" or "be silent"
-Moderation.

We get it, you have a particular dislike of Warhammer nomenclature. It's not a matter of you not liking it. Lord Kroak? Tic-Tac-Tao, Tichi Huichi. Tehenhauin, Itzi Bitzi, etc All of those are ridiculous names. I'll be disappointed if they don't turn up, however, because it's the cumulative 30 years of lore which has come together. I don't want you to go to prison for not liking a name, I'd just like you to become aware of how incredibly daft you are sounding by stating that it's not something you like, and "[hoping] that they get rid of the ridiculous real world names" is about as daft an idea as letting Peter Jackson take the reigns of yet another Middle Earth set film.

Less of the insults, however, please. I don't appreciate being called a demagogue or a school child because I stated that your opinion is against the lore of warhammer.

Ah well, as long as we've got the correct type of sandals, hey!

[HigoChumbo]

You really don't understand what "demagoguery" means, do you?

Let me intelligize you.



As for "not partaking", you already have done.


We get it, you have a particular dislike of Warhammer nomenclature. It's not a matter of you not liking it. Lord Kroak? Tic-Tac-Tao, Tichi Huichi. Tehenhauin, Itzi Bitzi, etc All of those are ridiculous names. I'll be disappointed if they don't turn up, however, because it's the cumulative 30 years of lore which has come together. I don't want you to go to prison for not liking a name, I'd just like you to become aware of how incredibly daft you are sounding by stating that it's not something you like, and "[hoping] that they get rid of the ridiculous real world names" is about as daft an idea as letting Peter Jackson take the reigns of yet another Middle Earth set film.

Call it a distortion or twisting of arguments if you are going to get picky and pull dictionaries on me (jesus... it's the "populism" argument all over again...)

As for the second paragraph, I'm kind of sick of your constant juvenile aggresiveness based on the sole ground that my opinion differs from yours, so I'm not even going to bother. My point of view is already quite clear, so I have nothing further to add. You might have even convinced me if you had expressed your rebuttal in a civilized, constructive manner, which, sadly, hasn't preciselly been the case.

Less of the insults, however, please. I don't appreciate being called a demagogue or a school child because I stated that your opinion is against the lore of warhammer.

You are not preciselly making an effort to avoid it.

And I wouldn't call "stated" to this:

Stop being ridiculous. The names of the regions and provinces have been that for years and years. Just because you don't personally like them because YOU associate them with something (they're in a TV show? Well lets never play GTA Liberty City because New York was in a few films/TV shows! Or lets never call our characters Edward or John because that's the names of Jedward, so that instead of having King John fighting Robin Hood, we have King Hugh instead) (big ass strawman fallacy, thanks for that) that they're not?

Lets get rid of Altdorf, because it clearly only means Old Village, or Drakwald because it means alternatively Dragon Forest or an intentional mispelling of Dark for Dark forest... Warhammer has forever been cheesy names - Lord Kroak - dead frog, croaked... no? This is part of the character and because you're only capable of ignoring Not!Russia and Not!Germany and Not!Holland and Not!France and Not!Japan and Not!China and Not!Rome and Not!Greece, and Not!Egypt while calling for others to be changed is simply hypocritical.

...since you make it sound as if you expressed your disagreement in an educated, laid-back and not at all over-the-top manner.

Now please, be my guest, have the final word, and let's put an end to this already too long nonsensical discussion, shall we.

[HigoChumbo]

double post

[illathid]

Look, I'm not trying to make fun of you. What I'm saying is that if "they get rid of the ridiculous real world names" like you suggest, there would be nothing left of the setting. And I like the setting.

I like the black humor, and the real world references and I don't want them to go anywhere. So if you say you hope they get rid of these, I'm going to say I hope they don't.

[Evan MF]

Wow, that map is very inspired... And Ulthuan looks like the most unnatural island formation you could possibly find. Then again, tectonics probably work in a completely different way in the Warhammer universe compared to ours, of which I am no doubt ignorant.

[illathid]

Wow, that map is very inspired... And Ulthuan looks like the most unnatural island formation you could possibly find. Then again, tectonics probably work in a completely different way in the Warhammer universe compared to ours, of which I am no doubt ignorant.

Ulthuan (and the entire planet actually) were molded into it's current shape by the Old Ones (i.e. nearly omniscient and omnipotent ancient space aliens) withe the help of their servants the Slaan (i.e. super intelligent magic frogs). As you can see Warhammer is a fantasy world that takes itself extremely seriously...

[petertel123]

If that's so, I'm glad they aren't. as I have already stated several times, I have no problem with the usage of real world languages as a reference, as far as they keep it generic (and that's still not the case of Essen and several other unispired place names which, as far as I'm concerned, appear on the official maps).

GW is really quite lazy sometimes, with their world looking exactly like earth but with a donut in the atlantic, with nippon as japan (nippon is just japanese for japan) and cathay in china (old name for china), not to mention stuff like araby, albion and ind, and of course all the real world city names you already mentioned

[Son of Horus]

Ulthuan (and the entire planet actually) were molded into it's current shape by the Old Ones (i.e. nearly omniscient and omnipotent ancient space aliens) withe the help of their servants the Slaan (i.e. super intelligent magic frogs). As you can see Warhammer is a fantasy world that takes itself extremely seriously...

It has walking cannibal fungi who think nothing of strapping wings and a pointy hat to themselves and jump in a catapult in an attempt to headbutt enemies to death, and overdose on liquidized poisonous mushrooms while being strapped to massive ball and chains and pushed in the general direction direction of the enemy alongside a herd of living carnivorous space hoppers.

Very seriously.

[HigoChumbo]

It has walking cannibal fungi who think nothing of strapping wings and a pointy hat to themselves and jump in a catapult in an attempt to headbutt enemies to death, and overdose on liquidized poisonous mushrooms while being strapped to massive ball and chains and pushed in the general direction direction of the enemy alongside a herd of living carnivorous space hoppers.

Very seriously.

That's actually quite cool, and as you can see in my "Miniature Wishlist" thread, I even advocated for the inclusion of the goblin launcher (aka a ballista that uses live goblins with wingsuits as ammunition), but the fact that Warhammer obviously does not take itself seriously, and intermingles a lot of weird, ridiculous, fun stuff in the fluff, does not mean that all their humour is actually good. There is good humour and bad humour. I laughed my ass off when I saw an ork getting pumped before being launched from a catapult dual-wielding axes just to smash his head against a wall seconds later in one of the Warhammer Online trailers, but some other things don't feel fun, but lazy and uninspired instead, as stated above. I personally think that having regions such as Ind, Nippon or Araby is definately not fun, but just unoriginal. With Estalia at least they tryed to mix a couple of words...

You'd be mistaken to think that I want Warhammer transformed into a ultra-serious supermegacool setting for motivated teenagers, I love the humorous touches, that does not mean I have to like every single one of them no matter how bad they are.

[Son of Horus]

However, neither do your personal tastes give you the "right" (wrong word, and coming across as a bit aggressive, it's not meant to, but I'm tired, and can't be bothered to think of a more politic way to say it) to wholesale change 30 years of background. It's bad enough that CA will maul it, it doesn't need people arbitrarily suggesting or encouraging the change of location or fluff. I want to fight the siege of Praag. So what if it's similar to Prague?

I've spent pretty much my entire teenage and adult life growing up and supporting this game. Just because it's a fantasy game doesn't mean you should be able to change it to whatever you like (or you can, following release. I'll be one of those feeling free to stay well away from that mod). You do realise that despite the slapstick, the world is meant to be grim and dark. It started off with a light humour base, but the world has developed into what it is now. I can only request that you stop asking for CA to change the names of locations; you can only imagine the response if you went into the Rome 2 forum and asked for CA to change the Spartan models to being copies from 300, and that every single Roman had Lorica, because that was your personal taste.

It's a fantasy game, but it's got an incredibly well documented background with which to base the game on. I also do believe that you need to lighten up. Who seriously cares THAT much that something is called something you don't like? I can understand a theoretical LotR game asking to rename Minas Tirith to Gondor, but I can't understand why you'd want to change it to something not lore related? What does it matter that it's not original (and honestly? It makes no difference whether you're in Eberron or Forgotten Realms, you can always make analogies with real world history), and what does it matter that it's "not fun" in your eyes? When I first read about Tichi Huichi and his adventures in places like Xilipepa, it was worth a quick laugh. Or it wasn't, maybe a groan at the poor wordplay. But now? I'm mature enough, and have enough sense of humour to understand that despite his punny name, Tichi Huichi is who he is, and the locations are where they are.

I guess it just comes down to your mentality and maturity I guess.