So lets talk about Warhammer...

[Huberto]

[delete]

[DavidtheDuke]

Picture, if you will, a world in which buggy and rushed games become even more buggy and even more rushed. Also re-do your math on the survey.

You're welcome.

Your assertions could easily have been made after Empire, which was just as bad. No one here knows the actual strategems of hiring at CA or how they allocate dev resources. Since there were people hired for Warhammer it could easily be suggested not much was lost, but it also could be. The key thing here is we don't have information.

And lets just assume they're stretching resources. Okay? We've suspected that long before fantasy TWs were a thing.

Even if I were totally against a WTW because of just the very idea of it, well, that wouldn't help anything. Even if the entire forums were against it it's obviously going to be released and it might even do better than any TW ever, since the forums are a minority, for better or worse.

Your best bet is to organize an actually effective boycott of things about TW or future titles you don't like. Otherwise you're spinning wheels just trying to convince a few pro-Warhammer guys on here that CA is stretching resources (and what can we even do about that?). If this is the basis of your argument: "well this will make TWs suck extra because our historical teams are being forced to work on fantasy as overtime!" and that's really all you have without any concrete information, then we're done here. Please don't become one of those people I have to put on ignore (I know you don't care, but still).

[Diocle]

In my opinion the new historical title won't be on Warscape engine. In my opinion Warscape ends with Warhammer, there is the time to develop a new engine for the new historical title, I trust in this concept, I want to believe this could be the future, I need to believe that Warhammer will be the tombstone of warscape, I need to see the death of warscape, I need to sniff the smell of its agony, I need to see the stone upon which, carved clearly, I can read:

"Here lies the infamous engine called Warsacpe. Do not cry good people for it shall not ever come back! RIP"

[DavidtheDuke]

"Here lies the infamous engine called Warsacpe. Do not cry good people for it shall not ever come back! RIP"

Problem is ever since they went Warscape they only became more successful... Not really a reason for people like Tim Heaton etc to actually change things top down. Honestly I'd have been happy to pay the same for a WTW if they just updated the MTW2 engine with loads new features. It's going to be sadly amusing if the Rage of the Dark Gods Warhammer mod is in the end more fun than CA's project.

[Aurelius Silvanus Tacitus]

In my opinion the new historical title won't be on Warscape engine. In my opinion Warscape ends with Warhammer, there is the time to develop a new engine for the new historical title, I trust in this concept, I want to believe this could be the future, I need to believe that Warhammer will be the tombstone of warscape, I need to see the death of warscape, I need to sniff the smell of its agony, I need to see the stone upon which, carved clearly, I can read:

"Here lies the infamous engine called Warsacpe. Do not cry good people for it shall not ever come back! RIP"

If they do this I will forgive Empire and the DLC gallore of Shogun2. Then I will open my best (and only) bottle of wine to celebrate.

[Huberto]

Your assertions could easily have been made after Empire, which was just as bad. No one here knows the actual strategems of hiring at CA or how they allocate dev resources. Since there were people hired for Warhammer it could easily be suggested not much was lost, but it also could be. The key thing here is we don't have information.

And lets just assume they're stretching resources. Okay? We've suspected that long before fantasy TWs were a thing.

If this is the basis of your argument: "well this will make TWs suck extra because our historical teams are being forced to work on fantasy as overtime!" and that's really all you have without any concrete information, then we're done here.

Well after ETW we still had a new engine. We have an old engine now, one that shows it's age, yet the very engine that will be used for no less than three Warhammer titles so they can all fit together.

Now the one glimmer of hope for historical fans, is the possibility of forcing Ca/SEGA to bring us a new engine for the next "true" TW title.

Or, if they try to pass a new historical game off on a 32 bit Warscape, like they are with Warhammer, we could resist?

Regarding WH I have no interest in it except how it effects to the historical game.

[DavidtheDuke]

Well after ETW we still had a new engine. We have an old engine now, one that shows it's age, yet the very engine that will be used for no less than three Warhammer titles so they can all fit together.

Now the one glimmer of hope for historical fans, is the possibility of forcing Ca/SEGA to bring us a new engine for the next "true" TW title.

Or, if they try to pass a new historical game off on a 32 bit Warscape, like they are with Warhammer, we could resist?

Regarding WH I have no interest in it except how it effects to the historical game.

How do you think this is forcing at all? I see no actual impetus to have them change the engine. And it isn't THAT bad, I don't own Attila but the melee looks fairly passable now from what I've seen. Warhammer maybe better, it may be worse in this sense. We don't know. I'm not sure what your point is or what we can even talk about here now.

[DavidtheDuke]

weird double post delete

[xjlxking]

Unfortunately, CA/SEGA Sammy have no incentive to build a new engine from scratch. It's too costly. There are no competitors that they really have to worry about. The market is asking them to show change in features and graphics; for that, they don't have to make a new engine, just upgrade it. For feature, they just have to re-use what they dropped last game. Family Tree was dropped in Rome 2, but added back in Attila; Graphics updated..etc.

As long as the market asks for the same stuff, they will never change the engine. Going from historical setting to one from fantasy is about attracting WH fans to this genre.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

TW3 will make a much better engine than the last generation for a Warhammer game.

Warhammer game needs to handle lots of guns, lots of canons, as well as pikes and melee. Attila has already shown massive improvements in melee fighting from Rome II, and I think better than Shogun 2 as well, it just wasn't noticeable in Shogun 2 due to the lack of tight formations and abundance of 1-on-1 fighting.

Not to mention magic and monsters. No idea at all how they will handle that.

They might even update it to 64 bit. Unlikely, but possible! The engine(s) was designed to be modular, after all, and easy to improve.

[C.Maximus]

I do not know much about Warhammer fantasy lore... Being a LOTR fan I played third age TW to death.. but as many in this thread pointed out, it was always good vs evil. (My FAVORITE) part of third age total war was after I rid the world of orcs and was able to conduct war with the Elves and other free peoples over land.... anyways... for that reason Warhammer Tw seems like a better total war setting simply because the elves, dwarves, men, orcs and undead all fought each other at one point.

I am a fan of the Dwarf.. I do not know why but I have played a dwarf since like middle school when I first discovered dungeons and dragons.. They are just crafty, stout little bastards with epic beards. As far as third age goes.. It is better for down to earth combat and I understand why so many say that it is better for a total war. When it comes to Battles.. I will have to agree.. Third age was very much like medieval combat.. Trolls were basically elephants, orcs were like horde factions (mordor being a bit more organized) but as far as battles go.. they were down to earth.. You never had to figure out how to combat a wizard who shot fire balls.... or had to combat a flying dragon, or had to defend against steam punk tanks... or had to fight a dwarf with a bazooka or flame thrower... You had dwarves with axes.. normal axes.. men with swords and bows, orcs with massively produced equipment... standard battle formations... fireballs only came from catapults...

Now here comes Warhammer with mages, dragons, flame throwers, steam tanks, gernades, canons and even hand rifles... nice... lets see how this all plays out in a total war setting... Ya Warhammer is made for total war combat (armies set up and attacking one another).. but the combat was all dice and stats... They already struggle with animations and fluid combat.. how are they going to have a dragon swoop down and take a chunk out of your line... or a wizard shooting chain lightening through your ranks... or a line of dwarves blowing up your flank with a high explosive... or even a chaos legion... the Warhammer mod for Mtw2 was extremely buggy (i had a hard time getting it out of russian) and because restrictions ALOT of warhammer stuff was left out..

My question is.. will all the crazy that Warhammer has translate well into a total war game? or will it just be flooded with special abilities, overpowered heros, and just glitchy animations... if this is the case.. they would have been better off making a 2nd age Middle earth game... in the 2nd age there was lots of with Anor and Gondor civil battles, the Rohan fought other northern tribes, the elves and the Dwarves had battles... was much more open to free people fighting each other and like others have said.. ya middle earth is based off the big heroes however you didnt have groups of wizards who could throw fireballs and lightening, you didnt have tanks or bazookas, you didnt have flying mounted units (other than nazgul but that is 3rd age)...

I see the concern for a completely nonsensical game where fireballs and over the top powerful units dominate a chaotic battle field... however I also see a game they can pull off... We will just have to wait and see..

But then there is this.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer:_Mark_of_Chaos

[DavidtheDuke]

I see the concern for a completely nonsensical game where fireballs and over the top powerful units dominate a chaotic battle field... however I also see a game they can pull off... We will just have to wait and see..

But then there is this.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer:_Mark_of_Chaos

The default installation for Call of Warhammer is really buggy, agreed, but here's the best installation: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-Installation

The monsters and wizards work fairly well, I mean the steam tanks are a bit janky but the trolls etc work fairly well. It's the first tiem CA has done something like this though, and first times usually don't work out so well for CA

[Jay the Byzantine]

How can hardcore fans trust a company when they're doing a licensed title? I'm worried as hell. They'll probably release for console and mobile on D1.

[revan.be]

Problem is ever since they went Warscape they only became more successful... Not really a reason for people like Tim Heaton etc to actually change things top down. Honestly I'd have been happy to pay the same for a WTW if they just updated the MTW2 engine with loads new features. It's going to be sadly amusing if the Rage of the Dark Gods Warhammer mod is in the end more fun than CA's project.

It`s going to be sadly amusing , when despite my warnings to back it all up somewhere, the Rage of the Dark Gods team receives a cease and desist order ,
courtesy of GW and/or Sega , and in the end Total War Warhammer is more fun by DEFAULT;ie; there is no other...

[PonySlaystation]

I'm expecting nothing but dumbed down streamlining, a large marketing budget, DLC out the arse and CA completely ignoring the community after learning zero from the last 2 years.


On second thoughts though if we get a decent 30 Years War mod out of it (Empire is basically Pike and Shot) I might think about buying it

I myself was quite happy with most of the changes they made with attila compared to rome2. A shame attila didnt sell as well as rome2 did because i think its way more polished and has way better features (dlcs still are mediocre at best though). Also the hype was huge for rome2 but for attila almost everyone was very cautious or in general decline to buy it.
So i hope sega doesnt get the wrong message and go again for the streamlined and simplified version.

But im quite optimistic they will deliver a deep campaign and unique unit rosters for TW:W because some of them are fans of the warhammer fantasy universe. Also the possibilities for great dlcs is given by the vast amount of different factions and units.

[HigoChumbo]

So I guess this is the reason why there is a 12 hour lapse between comments in the other TW Warhammer threads. Wouldn't it be better if we all commented this in the General TW Discussion subforum while we get a proper dedicated section? Makes it easier to keep track of things

[caratacus]

In my opinion the new historical title won't be on Warscape engine. In my opinion Warscape ends with Warhammer, there is the time to develop a new engine for the new historical title, I trust in this concept, I want to believe this could be the future, I need to believe that Warhammer will be the tombstone of warscape, I need to see the death of warscape, I need to sniff the smell of its agony, I need to see the stone upon which, carved clearly, I can read:

"Here lies the infamous engine called Warsacpe. Do not cry good people for it shall not ever come back! RIP" ] Ha,Ha,Ha.ha.....

[Humble Warrior]

What if they mess up the new engine? Ca has never acknowledged that Warscape is a bad engine.

WE know it`s bad because we`ve watched how it functions: how soldiers slide back and forth, morphing in and out of eachother which is intuitively wrong to our eyes. We know the physics just isn`t true. We also know that when Empire was released, warscape was half-finished, being abandoned by the guy who created it and since then it has been tied up with string, gum and mirrors to force it to function at a basic level, which CA have succeeded in doing. It don`t work as it should but it does on a basic level.

They`ll use it for Warhammer since they know most users to that game won`t even care about the physics of the bodies in that game, cos- a wizard did it.

[DavidtheDuke]

It`s going to be sadly amusing , when despite my warnings to back it all up somewhere, the Rage of the Dark Gods team receives a cease and desist order ,
courtesy of GW and/or Sega , and in the end Total War Warhammer is more fun by DEFAULT;ie; there is no other...

I have it backed up myself actually, including many submods.

What if they mess up the new engine? Ca has never acknowledged that Warscape is a bad engine.

WE know it`s bad because we`ve watched how it functions: how soldiers slide back and forth, morphing in and out of eachother which is intuitively wrong to our eyes. We know the physics just isn`t true. We also know that when Empire was released, warscape was half-finished, being abandoned by the guy who created it and since then it has been tied up with string, gum and mirrors to force it to function at a basic level, which CA have succeeded in doing. It don`t work as it should but it does on a basic level.

They`ll use it for Warhammer since they know most users to that game won`t even care about the physics of the bodies in that game, cos- a wizard did it.

Probably less than 10% of total TW users know what Warscape is (or whatever it is you call the melee subsystem Warscape has been using) enough to complain about it, unfortunately.

So I guess this is the reason why there is a 12 hour lapse between comments in the other TW Warhammer threads. Wouldn't it be better if we all commented this in the General TW Discussion subforum while we get a proper dedicated section? Makes it easier to keep track of things

I asked this in the Questions and Suggestions forums. A moderator replied saying maybe it's not necessary yet because of no release date? Not sure I get that, but I bet one will be made if enough pile in with me to say differently!

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...5#post14494875

[Sharpe]

Stuff like this deserves a permanent facepalm by both Jesus & Picard:

I'm actually built like that IRL