UNITS ROSTERS discussion

[eyelurker]

Bekh Druzhina. Man these Cuman units are crazy.

So after the Cuman betrayal Cuman attack Gorganch, they are all noble which is a bull in itself but i try battle it anyway since i will auto win the battle anyway because they bring no general and i have a relatively tough garrison.

I'm not regretting this auto win one bit because these units don't rout. In ny manual battle it's Cuman win but only after mutual kill. This kind of casualties are a death sentence for a captain-led army but Bekh Druzhina doesn't care.

I need to bolster Gorganch, if only to make auto battle look more favorable(i will auto win defend settlement if i see those full stack Bekh Druzhina again)

Update edit : Okay. So those Bekh Druzhina is not invincible or super high morale. It's just for some reason on that siege they just refused to rout. They are still powerful and Cuman send them like it was nothing but i have build an army that are suitable to counter these menace.

Edit : Daylami swordsman sucks man. 2 battles, 1 against crusader with their all crusader knights and 1 against a small Faris and heavy spearman(which i cannot recruit if i play as them) garrison. This pathetic infantry have an upkeep of double of Shurtah/Ahdath milita and die just as easily. Their only benefit are their high attack, which cannot be used because they die before they swing their sword(or short spear, their model is weird), i should know i lose 400 of these Daylami trash in those two battles. Thank god i use mercenary instead of recruiting them for 2 turns

[eyelurker]

Aren't bodyguards seems a bit too fast? They keep escaping from my light/horse archer chasing them

[kostic]

Perhaps it is possible to review the speed of the different mounts... I haven't tested yet.

[eyelurker]

Khwarezmiya have been a blessing. After sone time i get the Late Ghulam cavalry reform, except i'm not sure why i should recruit them when Khwarezmiya are available, which are cheaper, have more armor than Late Ghulam in exchange for slightly lower melee(like 1 diffrence) but still a high melee for cavalry and high availabilty with large aor recruitment so there are always Khwarezmiyya available.

Maybe once i expand into Europe i would prefer Ghulams again but for now against Mongol and maybe Georgia and Rum when the time comes it's all Khwarezmiyya for me.

[eyelurker]

So after a longtime i finally get a new horse archer unit for Abbasid. Mamluk Horse Archer in exchange of dissapreance of Iqtadar.

It looks stronger, have 80 instead of 60 men with better arnor and melee. But their ranged stats are not better than Faris Cavalry and more importantly they only have max:1 in at least Fortress stable so unlike Faris cavalry they are more likely to be more niche due to theor scarcity.

I would say about their perfomance but for now they are not replenished yet and i will need to recruit at least 2 of them to rate their perfomance.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Here are my remarks from the initial unit rosters of Norway, Lithuania, and Novgorod from early game experience (mostly ~50 first turns). These are from the August version with VH/VH. I've played without the financial aid, so the unit recruitment & upkeep cost discussions might very well be different, if playing with financial aid on.
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Unfortunately I have no suggestions to offer. I'll let others draw conclusions, if need be
If needed, I could write some remarks about the Scottish roster too, as I played the early game (until the death of David at turn ~48) a few weeks ago on the August version. I would just need to load up the save to brighten my memories, as I don't remember their roster that well besides it being quite limited early on.

thanks for this input, @vovery, will be used for each faction (and I've copied it there)
JoC

[vovery]

A couple things I noticed in the Norwegian unit roster after the heavy mail event at turn 120:

1. The first and third levels of barracks in cities (town and city watches) offer urban spear militia up for training, even though Norway has it's own upgraded version of spear militia (landevaernmenn) available starting from the third level of barracks in cities (city watch). Urban spear militia isn't also available for the second level of barracks, and also not for the >= 4 level, which made me think they might be available by accident. Even the description mentions they are common throughout Italy.

2. The landowner building line still offers huskarlar even after the heavy mail event for the second to fourth level of the building. They become unavailable immediately after the event for the first level (landowner's guards), and their description also mentions how they slowly disappeared when the medieval society started to shape up.

3. The time inbetween the disappearance of huskarlar, and the first feudal knights & foot knights available for recruitment seems a bit harsh (35 turns), as the huskarlar indeed disappear immediately from the recruitment tab after the event, unless one happens to already have a second level landowner's building. Of course the king's hirdmenn are still available in the mean time, so it's not a catastrophe at all.

4. The castle barracks building line in building browser seems to have some inconsistencies from the third level up: veteran djengjar, atgeirmenn, and axe militia are available for the third level (drill square), but disappear in the fourth and fifth levels at least in the building browser. I take it this might just be down to not having time yet to go through the unit rosters, as the info scroll says in the beginning of a Norway campaign about how the reforms are not complete yet.

[j.a.luna]

A couple things I noticed in the Norwegian unit roster after the heavy mail event at turn 120:

1. The first and third levels of barracks in cities (town and city watches) offer urban spear militia up for training, even though Norway has it's own upgraded version of spear militia (landevaernmenn) available starting from the third level of barracks in cities (city watch). Urban spear militia isn't also available for the second level of barracks, and also not for the >= 4 level, which made me think they might be available by accident. Even the description mentions they are common throughout Italy.

2. The landowner building line still offers huskarlar even after the heavy mail event for the second to fourth level of the building. They become unavailable immediately after the event for the first level (landowner's guards), and their description also mentions how they slowly disappeared when the medieval society started to shape up.

3. The time inbetween the disappearance of huskarlar, and the first feudal knights & foot knights available for recruitment seems a bit harsh (35 turns), as the huskarlar indeed disappear immediately from the recruitment tab after the event, unless one happens to already have a second level landowner's building. Of course the king's hirdmenn are still available in the mean time, so it's not a catastrophe at all.

4. The castle barracks building line in building browser seems to have some inconsistencies from the third level up: veteran djengjar, atgeirmenn, and axe militia are available for the third level (drill square), but disappear in the fourth and fifth levels at least in the building browser. I take it this might just be down to not having time yet to go through the unit rosters, as the info scroll says in the beginning of a Norway campaign about how the reforms are not complete yet.

Yes @vovery something similar happens to me but with the Kievan Rus, I put it in the thread months ago (I leave a link), the transition from Druzhinas to Boyars is not gradual and was also cut off suddenly, unlike the feudal knights Europeans.


It also happens that for lvl1, lvl2 and 3 of barracks for the cities in the steppe areas, the Russians and I suppose that the rest of the non-steppe factions cannot recruit even a single soldier, however if you transform it into a wooden castle or castle you can. recruit military units, I think this is a revision failure and is not on purpose since at least Eastern spear militia could be recruited as basic units...


I propose to Kostic and Jurand to transform the "kasogi" and "dismounted cuman militia" (in my historical descriptions they are called "steppe infantry" and "cuman warriors" respectively) transform them into steppe AORs, similar to other AOR units such as Prussians, Vlachs or slavs. These 2 basic units could be recruited at Lvl1, 2 and 3 of the barracks for both cities and castles and would represent the steppe military forces that would provide the conquered settlements, later I would also add spear militia and levy crossbowmen/archers as basic units of the faction to recruit in these settlements. It is practically unfeasible to maintain cities in these areas if you can't even recruit basic units...

LINK ABOUT RUS DISCUSSION

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...2#post16160852

[kostic]

@J.a.luna, @vovery: Thank you for your comments. First of all, it will be @Jurand's decision, but the idea of ​​AOR units for the steppes seems good to me.
I also think that the Italian militias are perhaps accidentally recruitable in Norway.

[j.a.luna]

Kostic i want to tell you a suggestion, currently in the game exist various slavs units but two of them are pretty similar, slav spearmen and slavic levies.. both have spears as principal weapons, is possible make slav levies with little axes, sticks and knifes? For a different rol and representing poor slav men with poor weapons. For spear unit we will have slav spearmen ( i think also should be an AOR unlt in Central and East Europe together with slav levies and slavic levy archers) what do you think?