UNITS ROSTERS discussion

[excubitor]

Could someone please tell me if it is possible to recruit mamluk units if you are playing as the Abbasaids or the Zengids if so could you please tell me how thanks.

you dont need mamluks for these factions,you can recruit ghulams which are the same with mamluks ie the egyptian ghulams were called mamluks.

also i would like to ask,have the muslim faction rosters been reworked?
it doesnt seem to be mentioned in the changelog of 0.9

[Boogie Knight]

Playing as the Crusader States, early era, I've not seen any Mamluks from the Egyptians at all. Only Ghulams, mounted and on foot. Is this correct?

[jurcek1987]

Playing as the Crusader States, early era, I've not seen any Mamluks from the Egyptians at all. Only Ghulams, mounted and on foot. Is this correct?

Yes, I think Mamluks only rise when the Mongols appear. In any case, you'd see a Mamluks rise event first.

[j.a.luna]

a question about berbers units...is it correct historicalment berber pikemen? the berbers used the pike? or is better a spearmen unit as lamtuna? i guess tthat the pike in early medieval era is used for scottish,byzzies and flemish...

[MWY]

Yes it is. I've read about pikemen in several sources, otherwise I wouldn't have implemented the unit.

[achilles-91]

-Pavisier spearmen and mislile pavisier unit should be added for France. They are mentioned in hundred years war.

[MWY]

I think they are mentioned as mercenaries if im correct.

[+Marius+]

Yes it is. I've read about pikemen in several sources, otherwise I wouldn't have implemented the unit.

Berber pikemen?

Where did you read this?

[achilles-91]

I think they 'standard' army's used pavise shields.
I have one idea about late european knights. Why not merge those helmet types into single unit, for more diversity?
http://postimg.org/image/yj1zizipv/
http://postimg.org/image/uf9ta5rbf/
http://postimg.org/image/l5tdndsu9/


Regarding Berber pikemen, when i was reaseraching almoravids army's, i think i also found that there was berber pikemen unit.

[+Marius+]

Regarding Berber pikemen, when i was reaseraching almoravids army's, i think i also found that there was berber pikemen unit.

Probably a mistranslation.

There were no pike formations in North Africa since the age of Ptolemaic Egypt.

This is what an Almoravid "pikeman" actually looked like;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They were just spearmen.

[achilles-91]

This mod have great units for late game muslim army's
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...-i-Mieczem-II)

[j.a.luna]

Probably a mistranslation.

There were no pike formations in North Africa since the age of Ptolemaic Egypt.

This is what an Almoravid "pikeman" actually looked like;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They were just spearmen.

yes marius i also think that they were spearmen units, not pikemen and phalanx formation...they were more on less as this...so MWY should explain about this problematic unit haha and also about muslims units rosters

[MWY]

I think I read about them at a battle in wikipedia. Might have been a mistranslation perhaps.. I couldnt find the wikipedia link in a quick search and there are different discussions about the unit.

Here:

http://oldforum.paradoxplaza.com/for...cussion/page43

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...he-XVI-Century

This source also mentions pikemen specifically:

http://unincountry.blogspot.de/2015/...d-dynasty.html

@executior: Most of the muslim rosters have been the same, but the transitions are now better and I think all units are enabled in the campaign. I don't think we need to change the early rosters much further, the muslim factions are still lacking late game units after the mamluk transition. Moors are especially lacking in evolution, but that's kind of a problem because it was basically the same in history.

[+Marius+]

Found literally nothing to corroborate those forum posts nor the blogpost.

Probably a mistranslation, someone read "phalanx" and automatically binded the term with pikes, after which other mentions just followed suit without checking.

[stevietheconquer]

i think too that pikemen among the berbers was not real,nothing against the moorish but i think they where not disciplinet enough too use act as pikemen,thought i can be wrong here.

[j.a.luna]

i have been searching about berbers pikemen and only i have found units with big spears and shield...about this...

i guess that the phalanx formation is not used for berbers, only they had largues spears with shields against cavalry, similar to byzantine kontarion but they don´t make the pike formation...

[achilles-91]

i have been searching about berbers pikemen and only i have found units with big spears and shield...about this...

i guess that the phalanx formation is not used for berbers, only they had largues spears with shields against cavalry, similar to byzantine kontarion but they don´t make the pike formation...

This one is Black guard

[j.a.luna]

yes, is similar to black guard but are berbers spearmen and this is the most largues spears that i have seen in berbers...they don´t use pikes as byzantines or scottish and less the phalanx formation, i guess that the unit berber pikemen is unhistorical and it should be a unit with largue spears and big shields as the image...

[Boogie Knight]

As spearmen, they could still have a boost against cavalry. Just... not as big a one as pikemen get. Do we have anything about what the Moors' response was to cavalry, at all?

[Dekhatres]

As spearmen, they could still have a boost against cavalry. Just... not as big a one as pikemen get. Do we have anything about what the Moors' response was to cavalry, at all?

all spearmen in SSHIP have just "light_spear", no damage bonus or anything, neither pikes have a bonus damage against cav, they have just "spear" and "pike" attributes

however a spear damage bonus can be added with "spear_bonus_x" x can be 2,4,6,8,10,12

a cavalry charge straight into ready spearman with max attributes results in lots of casualties BOTH for the cav and the spearman, i think this is really needed now with the cavalry buff in the new version