UNITS ROSTERS discussion

[achilles-91]

Whats purpose of heavy sword sergent unit? we already have unit like that, dismounted men at arms.

heavy sword sergents are avalaible at new_era begins, but as far as i remember they wearing half plate armor.

I dont see poing of this unit as we have sergent swordsmen, and later sword men at arms.

[Dekhatres]

Forgot there is also Montesa order, very similar to santiago iirc, i think those should belong to the templar/santiago group.

[j.a.luna]

I think that montesa order is removed of sship, only there are four orders(the most importants) , also i say that could remove or modify the unit of transilvanian peasant, they area vainilla unit and could give other free slot for other more aproppiate and historical unit of this hungarian and bulgar region

[achilles-91]

I suggest using those troops as berbers. I have all versions of this unit. With bow, javelin, sword, spear, cavalry...If you want I can send it. I also have unit cards for it.

[j.a.luna]

Achilles these units are so beatiful, sship lack of berbers with shields, your models can replace the current models of sship,they are most polished and better graphics models

[Lifthrasir]

Again, can you provide the source of these models? Thanks in advance.

[+Marius+]

Usage of bows in medieval polish armies was very small, since XIIth century crossbow became the primary missile weapon.

I thought Poland has quite a number of found longbows dated 10th-12th century?

http://arcus-lucznictwo.pl/index.php?id=47

The tallest one is 200 cm, probably one of the tallest bows ever found.

Also, are you sure there was a lack of composite bows in Poland?

In the Balkans, nearly all medieval bow findings are composite, though, the area was surrounded by the Avars, later Magyars and Bulgarians.

[achilles-91]

Again, can you provide the source of these models? Thanks in advance.

How do you mean 'source'? Here it is, if you mean this http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Textures/page3

However, sumzkils version is only with spear and sword.
Blad 389 made this unit with more arsenal. So they can perfectly fit for current sship berber units.

If you want em to send you other versions(with different weapons and UI cards) of this unit, just tell me.

[Lifthrasir]

That's exactly what I was asking for

I need to check that the source is an open one or that we get the permission of use by the author before to use the material for a public release. Hope your understand.

[achilles-91]

I already checked it all. Its resource. Regarding rest of version that Blad 398 made, he also told me that i can use them. So all you need is to contact sumzkils. However if i remeber good i contacted him 1 year ago, and he told units can be used with credits ofc.

[Lifthrasir]

That shouldn't be a problem to use Sumzkils units as he mentioned in the OP that they are an open source so free of use

[j.a.luna]

That shouldn't be a problem to use Sumzkils units as he mentioned in the OP that they are an open source so free of use

Ok perfect, so sship will be use his units, for example for new berber units... so Lifth you want use these new units for the next patch?(it would a great surprise)

[Lifthrasir]

Easy Mate. It's not decided yet

[achilles-91]

List is very good imo.

I have few additional suggestions. Let halberdier man at arms be as they are. they are good, but need new model, one from sandee units.

Regarding al haqa infatry. Remake it into sword jund, and make it be recruitable not only by zengids and fatimids, but also by abasid. Sword jund is basicly arab swordsmen. Il make more suggestions when i compare list detaily with mine

[+Marius+]

Careful with removing troops as to not remove variety and flavor of the roster.

Also, be sure you have something to replace the removed units with.

[j.a.luna]

Careful with removing troops as to not remove variety and flavor of the roster.

Also, be sure you have something to replace the removed units with.

yes it is a proposition...it is assumed that they will replace for toher more historical and non duplicated or more specifics units for a variety unit roster

[Alavaria]

"Spearmen" (edu: Sergeant Spearmen) unit is quite in a good position stat- and cost-wise. Compare to the "Spearmen Sergeant" (edu: Armored Sergeants) unit which is a little bit better but at a much higher cost. If your faction has Spear Militia, those are very far below the Spearmen in terms of stats, while if yours uses Urban Spear Militia they have lower stats but are more expensive (but larger size)

Arbalesters (and the merc/militia versions) are heavier versions of the crossbow units (more missile attack, armor). Though I think they're just worse than the pavise crossbow units, due to lacking the armor piercing and themselves being all armor and not having the shield defense. They might fare better than pavise crossbows vs musketeer units though.

Genoese Crossbow Militia might as well be removed, fill their spot in Pisa's roster with the standard Pavise Crossbow Militia.

Peasants might be ok to remove with the most basic spear unit for each faction... they don't really do that much besides be a decent garrison unit, I guess?

[Lifthrasir]

Peasants are also good as "canon meat" when you want to distract the attention of the enemy army to have the leisure to send your best units on their flanks or backs

More seriously, I really don't know what to do with these peasants actually. I'd be in favor to remove them but some people find them quite "useful". So, I really don't know.

[j.a.luna]

About spearmen....mmm i continue see much spearmen same type with light variations that can be replace for upgrade armour...
I definitivement would remove all type of arbalesters(i guess that is enought with crossbows) and remove also genoese crossbow militia
Peasant i think that can be in sship, they are the basics levies with their rudimentary weapons of the countryside
I would like that Lift and MWY say their opinion about remove list...
Also for add some new units, i will add some more italian units, not only marinae with these uglys bastons, maybe italians spearmen with big shields and italians crossbows as mercenaries(they were famous with crossbows and have very strong spearmen militias and they serve by thei economic interest in much countries)
And also make some specific units for not include factions...mercenary bulgar cavalry(with bows and strong charge), swedens axemen(men with big round shields and axes,mix into viking style and new european style), some volga bulgaria units,irish,prussians or baltics...

[Alavaria]

Peasants are also good as "canon meat" when you want to distract the attention of the enemy army to have the leisure to send your best units on their flanks or backs

More seriously, I really don't know what to do with these peasants actually. I'd be in favor to remove them but some people find them quite "useful". So, I really don't know.

Just put the really low tier Spear Militia or something in that place, they also perform that role, though perhaps not at a really low cost.

It is potentially an advantage for the player that the AI doesn't really use, as well as the garrison use...


Some peasant units might be special, Scotland gets a peasant unit with Javelins which is... pretty good for their cost.