UNITS ROSTERS discussion

[j.a.luna]

Thanks Alavaria!but i think that they are not revised and balanced in current sship...maybe MWY or Lifth could tell how they should be in the game...
I read some notes about them and uses in the crusades by muslims fatimids and also by byzantines... so they could be recruitable as mercenaries in thea Levant zone in some event or year (1190) naffatun exist before gundpower event and cannon, and alsoa could be recruitable with high cost and low replacement by byzantines, fatimids, selyuks in the alchemist lab...

[j.a.luna]

Other thing sship team...do you continue with the list for remove useless units in the next version for more free slots?
For example genoese crossbowmen and genoese crossbow militia, elephants , replaced crossbow militia for urban crossbow militia( similar units), naqipachari horse archer and steppe kazaks...
And other more that i posted in the first page some time ago...if you want i can edit and add or quite units for have a former list of units that could be removed in the next version for more free slots( and can add other better and fits units), all this for have something clear and save you some tedious work
Thanks in advance

[Jurand of Cracow]

Removing units is easy, adding units requires a lot of work. Removing should be done only after the new units are ready and tested.
Anyway, there's talking in the previous threads about removing Peasants and Peasant Archers (and with tmodelsk you can do it already for yourself), so this is the likely direction, I guess. Other changes should be done only with deep understanding of the circumstances. Eg. Steppe Kazachs - I've got no idea to what extent the name was used in the Middle Ages. Maybe it was?

The most difficult thing is to keep balance in the game. The SS/SSHIP creators achieved it and we must be very careful not to tip it off.

As usual - I'm advocating making fixes here and there, not radical changes. I think improving the provincial titles thanks also to your work will be part of the imminent changes.

Actually, what I'd like to see it the High and Late eras campaigns. I've been playing only Early and I haven't experienced much of advanced troops, not to mentioned gunpowder or halberds. But I doubt we're heading in this direction.

[Alavaria]

Actually, what I'd like to see it the High and Late eras campaigns. I've been playing only Early and I haven't experienced much of advanced troops, not to mentioned gunpowder or halberds. But I doubt we're heading in this direction.

It would be fun to play with a pike-crossbow type tercio. Or either type of halberd unit (the type that uses a formation vs the one without it)

There are I think "Berber Pikemen" which can be obtained in Africa from the start, don't know if they're actually useful due to being so light.

[j.a.luna]

@Jurand, ok but what are the new units in the next version? We dont know nothing, any checklist or something about new features, due to(and knowing current sship) i would want ''help'' for make a list where some units will be removed for the next version and why, but right sship developers need tell us something( maybe in the next week we will tell you some news about next version and the progress)so for now ''We are taking steps in the blind ''...
@Alavaria , if i remember correctly, berber pikemen will be removed for the next version, in some post it was said that they were unhistorical, not pike formation, in some case they were berber spearmen with shield and spear, similar to current unit of lamtuna spearmen, so probably other free slot more

[Jurand of Cracow]

@Jurand, ok but what are the new units in the next version?

I have no idea either, sorry.

[Lifthrasir]

Quickly while I have time:
Rosters to be implemented in next version: Norses and Scotts.
Possibly some slight adjustments around

[j.a.luna]

Quickly while I have time:
Rosters to be implemented in next version: Norses and Scotts.
Possibly some slight adjustments around

Ok perfect mate, when you have time give us more information please
About new roman roster of nikkossaiz he told me that he need make also light adjustement and also upload his great roman and maybe serbian units...
We hope see them in the next version, and about new georgian roster( jurcek new units) i supposed that when he has more free time could finished them
In general are good news about new units rosters

[Dekhatres]

he need make also light adjustement

good news, hopefully his units wont look dark/ish

[Lifthrasir]

^^ Don't hope for a major change. I remember that nikossaiz mentioned that he likes that "darkish" style (as I do btw).

[Dekhatres]

^^ Don't hope for a major change. I remember that nikossaiz mentioned that he likes that "darkish" style (as I do btw).

it was too good to be true i guess

[Lifthrasir]

Btw, you're the only one complaining about that

[Dekhatres]

Btw, you're the only one complaining about that

i am the only one with good eye


i noticed a while ago that byzantine units in general look slightly more "dirty" kind of, color red on spartharii tou vasileus for example looks more grey, more dirty

so i want to do the same thing just to make them look less dark, do you know how i can do that fast ? i dont want a huge guide explaining me all the , i just want to put a godamn tint on the units and that's it

i already did all the stuff with converting to dds/texture then i just changed contrast to make it look more white, yet for some reason when i check the units ingame textures are all completely messed up

EDIT srs tho, it doesnt even take a good eye http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15369893

[Lifthrasir]

Again, that's just a question of personal taste.

Regarding modding stuff, that's not the relevant place for that. Check this thread for tutorials and this one for issues.

[Dekhatres]

Check this thread for tutorials and this one for issues.

it's not a personal taste, if all units looked dark then yea in that case you could argue that

[Lifthrasir]

That's my last message about that topic. Everybody knows that not all units have been changed in SSHIP. There are still some vanilla one and some others from SS, all used in SSHIP without any change.
We can't change all models in a short term period, especially considering that some rosters will get major changes. So, what's the point????

[Dekhatres]

So, what's the point????

nevermind, can only wait and see

[j.a.luna]

Look at this units from jukoman and teutonec, they are awesome! And the hospitalers knights are amazing!
https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploa...2ab649d6e5.jpg

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploa...b261745f75.jpg

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploa...e9c560d8c8.jpg

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploa...9bf63ea98f.jpg

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploa...94c7a525b2.jpg

[j.a.luna]

An interesant article about siculo-normans and composition of their armies
It is interesant due to its agree about current unit roster of sicily, maybe the unique ''bug'' would be the banner, that it should be the hauteville banner family...
Enjoy it
The Normans were descendants of Scandinavian raiders. The Frankish kings gave them the northern provinces of their kingdom in exchange for paying tribute and obligation for military service. The former raiders accepted the French language and Frankish feudal customs, and their heavily armed infantrymen evolved into knights. According to the custom of the time, the first-born son inherited the father’s estate, and the younger ones, if they did not secure a marriage with a wealthy heiress, would leave to seek their fortune by their skill in arms. At that time the Christian kingdoms were hard pressed by Islamic invasions, and determined warriors fighting horseback were precious. The temptation to descend to the mythical South to find their fortune there was great. The arrival of the Normans in Italy took place in the first decades of the 11th century.

75c938b7a8015d7893aeb47dbd3324ac
Reconstruction of a 12th century Siculo-Norman helmet

Chronicler Geoffrey Malaterra wrote about the Normans that: «They are particularly distraught by cunning, despising their inheritance in the hope of gaining bigger property, willing to gain and dominate, prone to all sorts of hypocrisy, striding between generosity and greed, and combining peculiarly these two seemingly opposite properties. Their leaders are particularly generous in their desire for reputation. They are also a breed skillful in flattery, absorbed in the study of eloquence, so that even the boys are skillful orators, an unruly breed, unless the yoke of righteousness restrains it. They endure fatigue, hunger, and cold whenever fate throws it upon them. They are absorbed in hunting and falconry, and they especially like horses and all the weapons of war … »

Thanks to their ruthless energy and determination, the Hauteville family managed to be recognized as the Kings of Sicily by the Pope. The Normans retained the Byzantine bureaucracy, but also some elements of the former Islamic rulers. Together with the Norman notion of feudalism, the new sovereigns set up a unique for its time state, maintaining the balance between their Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim subjects, all of whom found a place in the army of the new state.

hauteville_monreale
The Ηauteville coat of arms from the Μonreale Cathedral in Palermo

The main shock weapon was of course the cavalry, consisting of armored knights. As mentioned above, most of the horsemen were harsh nobles from Normandy but with the passage of time Lombard aristocrats and wealthy Italian bourgeoisie found their way in the heavy cavalry units. The Normans had not forgotten the lesson of the Battle of Ofante where the Byzantines had soundly defeated them. They adapted themselves to the Byzantine tactics, and many of these methods, such as charging with the lance couched, were adopted by them. Initially, most horsemen were Normans, but slowly Sicily began to be flooded with Latin-speaking Lombard refugees who had been persecuted by the Byzantines and the German emperor. However, the recruitment of French-speaking knights seems to have never ceased, nor were the suitable Italian or Greek speaking warriors dissuaded from joining the army of the Sicilian kings.

The wealthy citizenry of the towns formed small cavalry units with the main task of guarding the surroundings from bandits and the repulse of Saracen raiders. These horsemen usually carried a fabric made cuirass or no armor at all, helmet, and shield and were armed with javelins. The Muslim horse-archers began to disappear gradually and being replaced by Lombard settlers, but as long as they existed, they provided light cavalry service.

normknts
Detail from the Palermo Cathedral with a depiction of Norman fighters.

The infantry was usually the militia of the Italian and Sicilian cities. The Calabreans and several Sicilians were Greek-speaking, but the Apulians were mostly Italian speaking in their majority. The infantrymen, armed with helmets, shields, spears, and a single edge short sword usually covered the archers and were a support element for the knights. Most Muslims who remained in the Norman’s Italian holdings were forced into a serving as light infantry archers, in exchange for their religious freedom. It is believed that Sicilian monarchs did not allow them to convert to Christianity in ordered to maintain good light infantry. Various mountain herders armed with clubs and slings were specially recruited in wartime and their sole motivation was to pillage. The infatrymen were useful as a guard in fortified sites and in siege warfare.

The Normans also inherited the well-organized engineer corps of the Byzantines and the Arabs, as well as the siege and anti-siege techniques of their predecessors. Most craftsmen and operators of the siege machines were bourgeois of Italian cities or Sicilian-Muslim conscripts. Another element of support for the army was Salerno’s medical school, which was flourishing away from Western European religious prejudices, resulting in that health care at least for those being able to afford it, was far superior to other armies of the period.

The naval cities of Lower Italy and Sicily provided ships and crews for the Sicilian-Norman navy. Marines originated as mentioned above from the coastal city militias. The most effective officer of the Hauteville was, Admiral Margaritis from Brindisi (from Greek descent), who dominated the Ionian and Aegean Sea, turning the area into Sicilian-Norman lake. This efficient naval power conflicted with the interests of Venice and this explains the Venetian willingness to ally with the Byzantines against the Sicilian-Normans. The kingdom and its army passed through royal marriage under Hohenstaufen




https://stefanosskarmintzos.wordpres...-of-byzantium/

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

That article is good .