I dont like SS HIP v0.8,it is not very balance like SS 6.4

[Dekhatres]

i just ran a test with 4 attack heavy archers vs dismounted banderium kights with 11 armor and when knights reached the archers they were down to 93 men

btw how much does mass affect damage ? (if it does)

[k/t]

It doesn't. It just affects the knockback power of the missile, so heavy projectiles slow down the advance of the enemy more.

The knights have 11 armour and no shield?

[Dekhatres]

oh right the shield yes, they have a pretty large one, 5 shield value

[La Tene]

archers will bring down eventually anything that isnt very heavily armored, early bodyguards included, bodyguards are only 20 so even when only a few get killed it seems a lot, besides, a unit of toxotae wont be able to 1v1 a bodyguard unit, try shooting down a unit of Scholarii with toxotae

This is a good point - bodyguard units should be kept safe for early parts of the battle usually.

But, some of these tests sound troublesome - 11 armor 5 shield down to 93 men? Heavy infantry should only be so vulnerable from the sides and rear....

Anyway, the mod is still totally playable and my Serbian infantry (Vladnic Volnic?) about to get an armor upgrade so I'll go on with my campaign - time to beat back some Hungarian advances, these lands are Serbian lands

[Dekhatres]

indeed

let's wait and see how archers perform after k/t reduces arrow mass

most of the casualties in my tests occured when knights were very close to archers (at point blank), in a campaign battle however you can use loose formations and greatly reduce enemy archers damage, also having a position higher then that of the archers also reduces damage, so if you use your knights well they shouldnt take much casualties, if any at all

[Dekhatres]

so i tried heavy archers again now with 4 damage and 0.03 mass (down from 0.07) and knights got down to 84 men :O wait should i increase that number if i want less arrow mass or.. how the hell does this thing work ?

cant wait to see your results k/t

[k/t]

Are you sure you didn't change the accuracy instead?

Oh, I wasn't planning to do it. I was just telling you what could be done.

[Dekhatres]

i am sure i didnt change accuracy, their accuracy is 0.8 wich seems to be among the lowest, militia ones having accuracy between/around 0.075 and 0.1025

[k/t]

To increase the accuracy, reduce the number. To increase the mass, increase the number.

[Dekhatres]

yea i know that, it's just that i wasnt 100% sure about mass

big mistake in my post above, Heavy Archers's quality_mass_composite_arrow has 0.08 and not 0.8

[La Tene]

Ah anyway it seems pretty balanced.. those archers if they're on skirmish mode they would start running before making a lot of those last kills.

[k/t]

They're Missile type, so they wouldn't start with skirmish mode on.

[Dekhatres]

Ah anyway it seems pretty balanced.. those archers if they're on skirmish mode they would start running before making a lot of those last kills.

yea when they are far away it takes many volleys for 1-2 kills however when knights get very close to archers the arrows interrupt their march and makes some of them march backward and thus recive arrows in the back resulting in significant casualties

i've tried giving heavy archers even 1 attack and while at long range they couldnt get many kills at close range they kept raking up kills like crazy anyway

personally what i find to be the best solution is to drain points from defense skill and put them in armor, i did this to cavalry with armored horses mainly, knights and most heavy infantry, i must say i am quite content witht the results, the only problem would be that with high armor values like that heavy inf might become too resistent to cav charges from behind

just did a few more tests, heavy archers (with 6 attack) vs dismounted banderium knights with 3 upgrades (18 armor), this time however i just let knights in place and didnt move them at all, archers shot all their arrows and the result is 0 casualties