Turks are a bit weak on campaign map - I wiped them out after 5 turns!

[bigdaddy1204]

Yesterday I started a Byzantines campaign. On turn 1, I gathered a large army from Constantinople and the Anatolian provinces, and I attacked Ankara. After easily defeating the Turkish army, I captured and exterminated the city in about turn 2 or 3.

Two turns later, I had advanced to Iconium (Konya) and captured that too, ending the Turkish sultanate. It was turn 5, and I was attacking entirely with basic militia units (contaratoi and toxotai) plus a handful of scutatoi units and some stratiotae.

If it was really so easy to conquer the Turks, surely the Byzzies would have done it! I felt I had destroyed my most dangerous enemy, almost without a fight. I was then free to mop up the various rebel cities of Anatolia at my leisure.

Surely the Turks need buffing slightly? I noticed their only starting forces were weak infantry units and they only managed to deploy two horse archer units against me before being destroyed.

Perhaps the Turks could benefit from a bit more of a starting army? I don't want an extreme change, such as Turks suddenly getting like 3 huge stacks full of elite gold chevron units (like they did in Broken Crescent), that would be way too much. But just a handful of better units might be good. I am thinking perhaps two or three extra units of horse archers, and maybe one unit of ghulam infantry or soemthing.

At least that would make it a bit harder to wipe them out in the opening turns of the game

Thanks

[GenPatton]

did you play that as VH campaign? if not you should try maybe you will face more resistance.

[bigdaddy1204]

did you play that as VH campaign? if not you should try maybe you will face more resistance.

Yes, I always play VH/VH

[jurcek1987]

I had similar experience playing as the Byzzies, the combination of weak Rum starting position and poor quality of their infantry plus the strength of ERE professional units leaves Rum powerless against the ERE onslaught. That's why I would like to see garrison script implemented for key AI settlements like in TATW. And I think that an additional settlement in western Anatolia (maybe Dorylaeum) could be added to improve Turkish position.

[Dekhatres]

yeah well i hope the garrison script will be optional

[MWY]

Giving them a better starting army should be no problem, but the main issue for a faction like rum is that a) they could never fight solely against a united byzantine empire. Atleast not in the game right now. I mean 2 settlements versus 17, you're not supposed to win this battle. b) horse archers in general have so little value in autoresolve battles. So atleast in AI vs AI, they lose even harder to the byzantines. I haven't found a way to fix this yet...

And I don't really like garrison scripts. An additional settlement, perhaps in exchange for a byzantine one (Arta, Attaleia, Sinope perhaps) could be good...

[bigdaddy1204]

Giving them a better starting army should be no problem, but the main issue for a faction like rum is that a) they could never fight solely against a united byzantine empire. Atleast not in the game right now. I mean 2 settlements versus 17, you're not supposed to win this battle. b) horse archers in general have so little value in autoresolve battles. So atleast in AI vs AI, they lose even harder to the byzantines. I haven't found a way to fix this yet...

And I don't really like garrison scripts. An additional settlement, perhaps in exchange for a byzantine one (Arta, Attaleia, Sinope perhaps) could be good...

Yes, that sounds like a good suggestion.

Please keep Attaleia in the game, that's an important city. But Arta, or one of the other small Balkans settlements, could happily be removed without me feeling sorry about it

[Lifthrasir]

We need to make some researches before to remove/add a settlement to be sure we still respect the accuracy. Then we also need to consider the gameplay. There's no point to be "too much" historically accurate if it unbances the gameplay in some areas.

[jurcek1987]

Dorylaeum would be a good addition, it was a fortified and strategically important settlement and the site of 2 major battles during the first and second crusade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...rylaeum_(1097)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...rylaeum_(1147)

[Larkin]

Well the only reason Rum wasn't annihilated by the ERE was because the ERE was too busy fighting itself. They were very rarely able to get everything and everyone working together in the manner you do as the player. Rum historically didn't expand for a very long period of time, it took them hundreds of years before they even reached the Black Sea.

[Lifthrasir]

That's correct. Also, to be honnest, I'm not a "huge fan" for more map change for now. I'm convinced that before to do that, we need to at least implement some factions' unit roster and to adjust the stats in the EDU. Then, depending on the results, we can consider to make map changes or not

[achilles-91]

I agree with Lift. Also, i dont see any much importance on Rum sultanate. Absolutly nothing unique...dont tell me 'janiceries', admit it, you never see them in your game, because you dont play 400 turns..It would be better to delete this faction, and give on ex-rum cities very strong stacks, so that byzantines have problems here at least.And here you go, new faction slot. Tunis area, armenia, and many more..

[GenPatton]

you dont play 400 turns...

I just passed 500 turns on my campaign playing as the Franks... and only have 45 regions controlled because the all time I have always been maitaining good/great global reputation so I only expand when I am reliable or very reliable. XD

[Lifthrasir]

Yes, it depends on people: some play 200-300 turns when others go further. About removing Rûm, same remark as for the settlement change

[bigdaddy1204]

I agree with Lift. Also, i dont see any much importance on Rum sultanate. Absolutly nothing unique...dont tell me 'janiceries', admit it, you never see them in your game, because you dont play 400 turns..It would be better to delete this faction, and give on ex-rum cities very strong stacks, so that byzantines have problems here at least.And here you go, new faction slot. Tunis area, armenia, and many more..

Wtf!

Please don't remove Turks. I am planning to play them in my next campaign! Removing them from the game is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. If anyone is going to be deleted, it should be Scotland, not the Turks! Who actually plays Scotland anyway...

[Dekhatres]

Wtf!

Please don't remove Turks. I am planning to play them in my next campaign! Removing them from the game is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. If anyone is going to be deleted, it should be Scotland, not the Turks! Who actually plays Scotland anyway...

agreed, delete scots and just make those regions hard to control, or just spawn armies made of scottish mercenaries once in a while

[Lifthrasir]

Actually, I do like playing Scots

As mentioned before, there's no plan to delete any faction for now. Removing Scots is not a good idea for the gameplay. That would leave England alone on their island. None of the other factions would be able to give them trouble when controlled by the AI (as the AI is not able to manage a real naval invasion).

[Larkin]

I agree with Lift. Also, i dont see any much importance on Rum sultanate. Absolutly nothing unique...dont tell me 'janiceries', admit it, you never see them in your game, because you dont play 400 turns..It would be better to delete this faction, and give on ex-rum cities very strong stacks, so that byzantines have problems here at least.And here you go, new faction slot. Tunis area, armenia, and many more..

I see all of my campaigns through to the end, even if that takes 500+ turns.

[bigdaddy1204]

I see all of my campaigns through to the end, even if that takes 500+ turns.

What happens at the end?

I don't think I've ever played a campaign where I took over the whole map. I have completed the 'short' campaign victory conditions and watched the victory cinematic, but I have no idea what a campaign 500 turns old looks like. None of my campaigns have ever gone beyond 150 turns or so, I always get bored and start another one.

[Larkin]

What happens at the end?

I don't think I've ever played a campaign where I took over the whole map. I have completed the 'short' campaign victory conditions and watched the victory cinematic, but I have no idea what a campaign 500 turns old looks like. None of my campaigns have ever gone beyond 150 turns or so, I always get bored and start another one.

When you take the whole map? The victory cinematic plays again, you get a special message, and you go back to the main menu.

I find late game intriguing, when it comes down to three or four huge superpowers and their vassals, vying for control. I remember one game where the entire world was split between me (HRE) and Hungary (my ally), save for a few Mongol cities in the Steppes, which Hungary was dealing with. England and Aragon were the only two other remaining factions, both my allies too. Aragon had all of Iberia and Morocco, England just had the British Isles. But I could see that they both had stack upon stack upon stack. Aragon must have had about 50 full stacks just sitting around. So when the time came and the alliances had to be broken, I had to invade Spain with dozens upon dozens of full stacks of my own, leading to multiple battles with tens of thousands of men. Pretty awesome stuff.