How Could CA Improve their Relationship with the Community?

[Theo]

I can say with 100% certainty that I would fire your company if you work for me.

lol...

I can't say anything about face book or twitter, don't know enough about them. but we also aren't talking about them but youtube comments.

He was. Talking about all of those social mediums I mean.

[Gillam I]

I basically just posted this OP with more neutral wording in the Steam forums. Thread deleted, 3 day ban from the discussion pages -_- Seems a bit overboard to me...

If it helps, i found your post really positive, and believe this is something CA/SEGA should be taking notice of.

[Dekhatres]

I can say with 100% certainty that I would fire your company if you work for me. who the hell pays attention to youtube comments? let alone base their business decisions on it? reddit(the last couple of years has been really bad for it as it becomes just another manipulated medium for the companies) for sure, but youtube comments? really?

I can't say anything about face book or twitter, don't know enough about them. but we also aren't talking about them but youtube comments.

if you are talking about youtube comments + reddit + facebook + forums + twitter, now you got something. hell please leave out the youtube comments.

they are deleting comments from the chaos warriors trailer video right now (and apparently lots of them) what's up with that ? they really have nothing else/better to do ?

[englisharcher89]

For me it's very simple. Info and gameplay of Vampire Counts and very soon

[Aeimnestus]

There is not much this company can do to win my trust before release. But not cutting content from the base game/developing additional content before the game is released to sell as DLC would go a long way. That said I've already decided not to buy TW:Warhammer, unless it turns out to be truly amazing.

[craziii]

And what is specifically so bad with Youtube comments? Sure enough, people tend to be more vocal and exaggerated in their opinions on Youtube than on Facebook or twitter for example (they and curse and rant a lot more to put things plainly), but they are still a valuable source of info for any company uploading and posting things online. What makes Youtube especially valuable as a source of feedback is its large audience, similarly to twitter and facebook.

Reddit and forum users are a much smaller community. They are however more passionate about the company's products. They are the lead users if you wish, very useful to get detailed feedback once the product is released or to get new ideas. But if the company is trying to test the community's mood, facebook/twitter/youtube is the golden trio in community management.

if you call reddit small I dunno what to say. I stand by my decision to fire your ass. it was absolutely the right decision.

He was. Talking about all of those social mediums I mean.

yea he did, but not the conversation I was having with the other one, the conversation he joined. got a clue yet?

they are deleting comments from the chaos warriors trailer video right now (and apparently lots of them) what's up with that ? they really have nothing else/better to do ?

that is in extremely bad taste. it is the youtube comments, the % of trolls and the stupid is almost 100% what a stupid and futile effort on ca's part.

There is not much this company can do to win my trust before release. But not cutting content from the base game/developing additional content before the game is released to sell as DLC would go a long way. That said I've already decided not to buy TW:Warhammer, unless it turns out to be truly amazing.

ca actually has a separate dlc department working on dlcs, it is why they have such a large number of devs. ca even got teams working on different games at the same time. it is why they can release almost yearly total war games + major games like alien isolation + the online total war + other small social media games. this has been repeated many times on this forum, it isn't exactly a secret.

there is nothing wrong with not buying, I have always stressed this point. vote with your wallet. I really, really hate people who cry about an unreleased game. dlc? when bethesda got away with horse armor, I already know that every company with a even a working brain cell would do dlc from that point on.

that said, why did you decide not to buy tw warhammer?

[Fredrin]

It's got to a point where it feels like the developer views its playerbase as little more than a group of people they can push their wares on to increase their revenue. Anything beyond that is apparently so inconvenient it's not even worth their while.

Just look at it from the point of view of what makes someone want to be part of a gaming community in the first place.

1. Discussion with other members - probably the main one for a lot of people but CA do very little to help on this front. Their contribution to this discussion is minimal and perfunctory self-promotion. Worse than this, discussion between members often becomes an ugly slanging match between members who are pro or against the developers due to the ham-fisted way CA go about launching their products. Any attempt from them to diffuse this only comes if their profits are threatened by the bad PR.

2. Mods - improvements and additions to the games by the fans for the fans. CA are decent in some respects here, running stuff like the TW mod awards and offering up some excellent tools for Rome II and Attila. But for how long? We know that Warhammer will be getting no mod support whatsoever and it seems possible this will carry over to the next history release if they decide mods are too much of a threat to their precious DLC sales.

3. Communication with the developer - This is where CA really falls down. I think it's reasonable to hope for at least a limited degree of back and forth between community and developer. We are told that feedback is welcome, but regardless of how constructively it's put forward is there any evidence at all it's being taken on board? Worse than this, when something controversial comes as a result of their shady practices, discussion and even friendly feedback is at best ignored and at worst actively suppressed or deleted. It makes any attempt to engage with the developer feel less than futile.

It's hardly the end of the world, but it sucks supporting a game whose developers you know damn well couldn't give two shites about the people who play them. With a small amount of effort, you feel that things could be done differently. The end result would undoubtedly be happier fanbase, better product and much higher sales.

[Huberto]

fyi, 300k views, 30k dislikes that is 10% ahahahahahaa

I watched the video didn't like or dislike that is 0% ahahahahahaa

iwhen bethesda got away with horse armor, I already know that every company with a even a working brain cell would do dlc from that point on.

But they didn't get away with horse armor. There was a huge stink about it, people still talk about it derisively and -- wait for it -- Bethesda doesn't do like that any more. CA could learn from that experience, actually.

[Frost, colonel]

You would of thought that from a goodwill, or even a business/profit persective that CA would actively been involved with this thread you put up, it would not harm them.
How do you feel about been banned from Steam forums for 3 days when you try and put up a sensible helpful thread? that was supposed to be helpful to all parties. The oddest thing is why would you from a profits perspective, ban something that if anything may of generated sales? Unless someone wasn't thinking?

Maybe CA/Sega need more time, although a quick response would of being better. But the anger over this isn't going anywhere. More gamers are still spreading their bad opinion of said company.
People when on tend to bear grudges, a simple fact of human nature, that's why for example some are still angry with that awful and highly insulting bug fest, the RTWII launch. I'd forgotten how angry that made me, but then I made the mistake of watching some of Angry Joe's review of it, ok some of those bugs did make me laugh seeing them again.

[Fredrin]

You would of thought that from a goodwill, or even a business/profit persective that CA would actively been involved with this thread you put up, it would not harm them.
How do you feel about been banned from Steam forums for 3 days when you try and put up a sensible helpful thread? that was supposed to be helpful to all parties. The oddest thing is why would you from a profits perspective, ban something that if anything may of generated sales? Unless someone wasn't thinking?

I think the point it illustrates is that neither CA or SEGA is interested in any feedback on the subject. It was a CA developer who deleted and banned me for posting a thread that was directing constructive feedback to Dan Sheridan and Jon Rooke. This suggests to me that it's possible CA doesn't want all this ill-feeling to leak out to their publishers because they may then start to feel pressure from above.

That's why I ask in the OP, if forum activity across all sites - official or otherwise - is disregarded (or actively censored in some cases), then what avenues does that leave the section of the community who would like to be heard on the subject of Chaos preorder DLC?

I highly recommend approaching them through other channels - worth taking heed of frenchyvinnie's excellent post above when he says "facebook/twitter/youtube is the golden trio in community management".

Has anyone tweeted these guys yet?

Jon Rooke, Marketing director @ SEGA - https://twitter.com/f1ghtclu8

Dan Sheridan, Community Manager @ SEGA - https://twitter.com/thisisactionman

Seeing as it is effectively these people's jobs to manage the community of the games they sell, if they offer no response after sustained attempts, it would be reasonable to force one by going to every PC gaming media outlet who might be interested and letting them know about the extent of the uproar.

[Frost, colonel]

Do you believe that either of these 2 gentlemen are actually unaware of the 30,000 dislikes on that youtube video?

frenchyvinnie's job role and the way he carries it out must surely be the same formula for much of the rest of industry, especially the gaming industry, it has to be? Or do these chaps sit in their offices and say Youtube, facebook, what are these new fandangled modern social media concepts?
I'm not trying to be negative Fredrin, I'm thinking they know, I'm just waiting to see if there is a response from them. Fancy us trying to force a response from them.

[Fredrin]

Well, there's nothing like a bit of bad press to make people face up to their mistakes I'm sure they know. But knowing something and being publicly seen to know something and carry on doing nothing about it are two different things. It may help get a response, but not without a concerted effort and I don't see much appetite for that around the forums. People just want a good old moan, mostly!

[frenchyvinnie]

if you call reddit small I dunno what to say. I stand by my decision to fire your ass. it was absolutely the right decision.

Reddit had a total of 36 million users last month. By users, I mean registered accounts (i.e people actually posting contents and comments). Add to that slightly more than 200 visitors without an account that just read posted content.

Youtube has over a billion users worldwide. That's one third of every person with internet access. In the US, more content was watched on youtube on mobile phones than any cable network. That's right, there are more people watching youtube on mobile phones than there are people watching cable TV.

Reddit is a tiny speck in terms of community management. As I said, its only real value for businesses is that it generally gathers lead users together.

Now, if instead of acknowledging cold hard facts from someone that actually knows what he's talking about, you keep spewing out rude comments like "I'd definitely fire your ass", then I have nothing more to discuss with you and have obviously wasted my time.

[craziii]

I watched the video didn't like or dislike that is 0% ahahahahahaa
But they didn't get away with horse armor. There was a huge stink about it, people still talk about it derisively and -- wait for it -- Bethesda doesn't do like that any more. CA could learn from that experience, actually.

who gives a flying about the stink it raised, what ca, what any business cares about is money. a temporary stink that brought in millions and doesn't affect your future releases? hurray, more please.

fyi, please make sure your jokes are funny before posting, it just makes you look like a ......

@vinnie this is for you https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/about/traffic https://www.reddit.com/about/ http://venturebeat.com/2014/12/31/re...not-disclosed/ there is a reason why it is called the front page of internet. there is a reason why every ing big sub reddit was taken over in the last 2 years. I would fire your ass so fast if you work for me.

[Fredrin]

Reddit had a total of 36 million users last month. By users, I mean registered accounts (i.e people actually posting contents and comments). Add to that slightly more than 200 visitors without an account that just read posted content.

Youtube has over a billion users worldwide. That's one third of every person with internet access. In the US, more content was watched on youtube on mobile phones than any cable network. That's right, there are more people watching youtube on mobile phones than there are people watching cable TV.

Reddit is a tiny speck in terms of community management. As I said, its only real value for businesses is that it generally gathers lead users together.

Now, if instead of acknowledging cold hard facts from someone that actually knows what he's talking about, you keep spewing out rude comments like "I'd definitely fire your ass", then I have nothing more to discuss with you and have obviously wasted my time.

^This sounds like some advice worth heeding, Craziii, tbf


frenchyvinnie, I'm interested to hear your take on this whole situation seeing as you have actual experience as a community manager.

Firstly, this part of what you said interested me a lot:

From experience, I can also assure you that platforms like youtube or facebook are usually very representative of our total consumer base, since pretty much anyone turn up on those platforms. Reddit and forums usually cater to a smaller and more specific audience, so we pay slightly less attention to them.

Based on this, do you think there exists a far larger number of people outside TW forums who dislike the preorder practice than within them? That seems to be the impression given by comments and likes/dislikes for the Chaos trailer.

Also, assuming Craig Laycock is good at his job, what do you think is preventing better engagement with the community? Are his hands tied by seniors within CA or possibly by the publishers themselves?

Basically, as you have an equivalent position, what would cause you to neglect a massive ruction in the community in the same way we're seeing CA do this.

[craziii]

^This sounds like some advice worth heeding, Craziii, tbf

I can't take anything from a guy who is that clueless about the only website that matters on the internet right now.

[Fredrin]

I can't take anything from a guy who is that clueless about the only website that matters on the internet right now.

So are you saying that, on balance, the opinion of the Reddit is of more worth to community managers than Youtube comments and most other forms of internet commentary?

[Frost, colonel]

Based on this, do you think there exists a far larger number of people outside TW forums who dislike the preorder practice than within them? That seems to be the impression given by comments and likes/dislikes for the Chaos trailer.

I am not frenchyvinnie, but considering the 30,000 dislikes, this must mean many are not from the forums? I have read through some of the Youtube posts, some are from gamers who do not play CA's games, who are just against the way things are going in the games industry, ie gamers supporting gamers. There are many gamers(consoles) who are getting fed up with the growing trend towards us consumers. They also have a chance to voice their dissent.

If we could get all gamers to unite, then that would be good, as Sega etc I presume have interests in PC and console games, so all us gaming consumers are linked because these corporates are to some degree one and the same, when they pick up on how others make more money, and largely meet little opposition at the modes of conducting their business practices. Someone who can be arsed could link up this growing frustration of feeling taken advantage of.

I can't take anything from a guy who is that clueless about the only website that matters on the internet right now.

I'm English not American incase this makes any difference, but as a consumer what is Reddit? barely heard of it. Now Youtube is a solid place is to get reviews and opinions on products, it's either Amazon or Youtube amongst everyone I know.
How can Reddit be the only site that matters on the internet right now regarding consumer feedback and just sheer numbers of viewings, when the number of consumers seeing Youtube vastly out numbers Reddit?

[Fredrin]

The funniest part of this is the fact that about 75% of responses to the Attila survey came direct from the TW Subreddit. Look what they had to say on the matter:

[nosuchname]

to begin with they should stop banning people for criticising the preorder dlc