Screenshots / Empires' Maps Thread

[Lifthrasir]

Another trick is to have several skilled assassins to kill the generals leading the crusading armies. Without generals, these armies will disband. I did that once to help the CS who had a jihad called on Jerusalem. I sent a couple of assassins in the Levant and spent many turns killing these generals. The CS just had to fight a few stacks, the one who managed to go throught my assassins. It was good fun

[Jurand of Cracow]

Secret: Easy way is to just hand the target (eg: Tunis) to some other small faction (eg: Serbia? or whoever) which will end the crusade. Then it's subject to a cooldown. You can retake it afterwards or just use spies etc to make it rebel again and then retake it...

I remember that in SS6.4 (and perhaps in vanilla as well, I didn't play it so I don't know) taking back a settlement which was sold by you makes the biggest hit to the reputation (-1,0, while reputation swings from -1 to +1). Additionally, it is remembered forever and works even if you take it from another faction.
Is it still valid in SSHIP? (or maybe it's hardcoded, I don't know).

[Lifthrasir]

I don't think we have touched that in SSHIP

[Alavaria]

I remember that in SS6.4 (and perhaps in vanilla as well, I didn't play it so I don't know) taking back a settlement which was sold by you makes the biggest hit to the reputation (-1,0, while reputation swings from -1 to +1). Additionally, it is remembered forever and works even if you take it from another faction.
Is it still valid in SSHIP? (or maybe it's hardcoded, I don't know).

You could also just let the settlement rebel from you, if that's how you want to play it.

Or, let the crusade take the settlement (ending the crusade) and then just take it back afterwards.

[bigdaddy1204]

These are all solutions that work, but they're still sometimes not ideal. For example, in my Fatimids campaign I have spent a lot of time building a large mosque in Rome, which takes many turns. If a Crusade were called against the city, and any other power takes it, the mosque would be demolished and I would have to go back to square one and rebuild the entire mosque line of buildings from the beginning. This is annoying and takes over 20 turns to complete. I think Crusade armies should be capped at five stacks maximum. After that, no more stacks should be allowed to join.

[achilles-91]

These are all solutions that work, but they're still sometimes not ideal. For example, in my Fatimids campaign I have spent a lot of time building a large mosque in Rome, which takes many turns. If a Crusade were called against the city, and any other power takes it, the mosque would be demolished and I would have to go back to square one and rebuild the entire mosque line of buildings from the beginning. This is annoying and takes over 20 turns to complete. I think Crusade armies should be capped at five stacks maximum. After that, no more stacks should be allowed to join.

This is great suggestion!

[Lifthrasir]

Not sure it can be done and if yes, it would requier to change some other parameters of the game (f.e. amount of turns to join the crusade, consequences if not joined in due time, rewards, Pope reputation, etc...).
Honestly, if it's possible and if we want to do it in a good way, I think that it would requier quite some work.

[Alavaria]

Suspect the crusade/jihad mechanics are hardcoded...

[Lifthrasir]

That's actually my feeling as well

[romy]

Why not limiting the factions allowed to join a crusade to "France", "England" and HRE ? Would be more historically accurate IMO.

Or if it's possible to limit specific factions according to the regions the crusade's target is located (crusade on Cordoba ----> allowed to join : Aragon, Leon and Castille and Portugal // crusades in Prussia and Lithuania ----> allowed to join : HRE, "Poland", "Danemark" and even "England" and "Norway" // crusade on Jerusalem ----> allowed to join : "France", "England" and HRE, etc.).
Should be hardcoded though.

[Alavaria]

Why not limiting the factions allowed to join a crusade to "France", "England" and HRE ? Would be more historically accurate IMO.

Or if it's possible to limit specific factions according to the regions the crusade's target is located (crusade on Cordoba ----> allowed to join : Aragon, Leon and Castille and Portugal // crusades in Prussia and Lithuania ----> allowed to join : HRE, "Poland", "Danemark" and even "England" and "Norway" // crusade on Jerusalem ----> allowed to join : "France", "England" and HRE, etc.).
Should be hardcoded though.

Never heard of anyone being able to really change such things about the crusade/jihad mechanics.

Suspect it's as simple as crusade -> all catholics and jihad -> all muslim in the m2tw exe

[romy]

Maybe by making new "religions" ? Something like "western catholics" (HRE, kingdoms of France and England), "iberian catholics" (Aragon, Leon and Castille, Portugal).

Seems to be complicated regarding the relations with the Pope.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Why not limiting the factions allowed to join a crusade to "France", "England" and HRE ? Would be more historically accurate IMO.

It would be a-historical IMO. There're many Polish dukes and knights taking part in the crusades against Prussia. There're was at least one Polish duke and perhaps many knights taking part in the crusades to the Holy Land. Afaik, there're many Hungarian dukes heading for the Holy Land.
I think the catholic nobility was pretty homogenous in their values and deeds in the High and Late Middle Ages.

[Lifthrasir]

That's correct. In a general view, nobility used to offer its services where profit could be made (money, lands, titles, etc...). For instance, quite a lot of German knights were used as mercenares in Scandinavia.
There's even a record of a Hungarian Knight joining David I when he returned to Scotland to get his throne.
Not to mention Jihad which used to gather Muslims from all Muslims regions.

Again, I guess that an AOR system allowing a crusading/jihadist general able to recruit local units in the territories along his journey to his target could reflect that.

[bigdaddy1204]

What I object to is having 30 full Crusader stacks descending on Tunis all at once. In reality, none of the Crusades was anywhere near that large. The Second Crusade for example had a French army and a German one; both were destroyed separately, and that was it. This would require two field battles; that is all. At the moment, defending against a Crusade is effectively impossible. The chance of a Crusade to succeed against any AI faction is 100%, which isn't historical nor realistic.

Plus, there are many more Christian factions (16 or so) than Muslim ones (6), which means that areas like North Africa keep ending up under Christian rule. But I've never seen a Jihad take Palermo (apart from when I'm calling it).

[j.a.luna]

What I object to is having 30 full Crusader stacks descending on Tunis all at once. In reality, none of the Crusades was anywhere near that large. The Second Crusade for example had a French army and a German one; both were destroyed separately, and that was it. This would require two field battles; that is all. At the moment, defending against a Crusade is effectively impossible. The chance of a Crusade to succeed against any AI faction is 100%, which isn't historical nor realistic.

Plus, there are many more Christian factions (16 or so) than Muslim ones (6), which means that areas like North Africa keep ending up under Christian rule. But I've never seen a Jihad take Palermo (apart from when I'm calling it).

The Kingdom of God ever prevails against fanatic muslims...Deus lu vult!!!
Yes it would be good that could change this stacks hordes of crusades, maybe is possible only for christian faction with much favour of pope for example(little cross in papal favour) only faction with seven or more favour cross can make a crusade...it is a idea for dont overpower the crusade...

[bigdaddy1204]

The best part is when Christian factions declare a Crusade...against themselves!
I'd like to see more factions being excommunicated by the Pope. Lol.

Also, one small idea for this mod - have you guys ever considered making a different start year? For example, a campaign that starts in 1000AD instead of 1132? Could be pretty cool...

[Lifthrasir]

It has been discussed to move the starting date to 1145 AD just before Fair Prince stepped down as mod leader. This was to reflect the 2nd Crusade after the fall of Edessa and also because considering all dynasties, it was a perfect time scale. However, this would requier some work as, for example, all events would need to be reworked in terms of turns.

As SSHIP is based on SS which starts in 1100 AD, we won't move it earlier than that date as it wouldn't be related to SS anymore

[Navajo Joe]

Guys,

This thread is called 'Screenshots/Empire Maps' Thread and although the your conversation is based on a screenie from Big Daddy, I feel that the thread is now moving 'Off Topic'. I do feel this conversation should now move to the discussion thread or with Lifth permission I can open a new thread.

Navajo Joe
SS Forum Mod

[Lifthrasir]

I was so focused on the discussion itself that I didn't pay attention to its location. I don't think there's a need for that subject for now NJ (thanks for pointing this out btw). If needed, we can carry on in the General Discussion thread.