Special buildings/Wonders

[Lifthrasir]

I'm not in favor to add wonders to all factions. What's the point to have them in that case? They would just become another building.

[Hadhod]

Agreed. However it is always easier to choose from a group of already given examples than to look for completely new stuff. So every suggestion is welcome for me at least.

[lolIsuck]

Aachen cathedral for the HRE I'd say, built by Charlemagne, who was also buried in it, and later the coronation site of most German kings. Became a pilgrimage site in the 13th century too apparently. Problem being Aachen is not in the game so it'd probably have to be added to Cologne.

[Lifthrasir]

Agreed. However it is always easier to choose from a group of already given examples than to look for completely new stuff. So every suggestion is welcome for me at least.

I know Hadhod. My remark wasn't for you
I just felt the need to precise it to let people know that not all factions will have a wonder despite the fact that the suggested list can concern all of them. I should have been more precise

[j.a.luna]

I know Hadhod. My remark wasn't for you
I just felt the need to precise it to let people know that not all factions will have a wonder despite the fact that the suggested list can concern all of them. I should have been more precise

ok not all factions with wonders but some more yes, at least tower of london for england,some wonder for rus and other for HRE or selyuk empire...totally 3 wonders more

[Boogie Knight]

It's by no means necessary to give every faction something that would qualify as a "wonder;" but I think there's something to be said for adding certain unique, notable buildings to settlements for the sake of immersion in the history of the period. 1648: Thirty Years of War, Third Age Total War and Europa Barbarorum II do this brilliantly, with buildings (some of which have no effect - they're there for informations' sake) present in settlements from the start such as holy sites, important buildings and institutions. Their purpose is immersion, which I'd say has a place in any mod hoping to provide an in-depth historical experience. They don't need to be wonders at all, with effects that drastically alter the running of the settlement. This is something I've always thought Stainless Steel lacked; historically crucial cities and regions are left feeling largely like any other, because there's none of the character and spirit these places would've had in real life. Why did people visit these places? What was it like to live in the shadow of some of these fabulous mega-structures? What made this place significant?

Some mods manage to answer these questions and give the player a sense of "being there" in a way others don't. It doesn't have to be done for every settlement; perhaps one or two for a faction would suffice. But they make a huge difference. SSHIP, still in development, has an opportunity to do this.

[Lifthrasir]

Remark taken into consideration Boogie Knight

[Boogie Knight]

I wish now that I had some early suggestions to give you, but as my knowledge of buildings from the era is far from complete I can only really advise on the British Isles and a few other scattered places. One recommendation I might make for the late era would be the site of the cult of St Thomas Becket in Canterbury cathedral; it became one of the most popular pilgrimage sites in the Christian world, as I'm sure you know. The in-game building to represent it could be placed in London, as London controls the entire South East.

[Hadhod]

It's by no means necessary to give every faction something that would qualify as a "wonder;" but I think there's something to be said for adding certain unique, notable buildings to settlements for the sake of immersion in the history of the period. 1648: Thirty Years of War, Third Age Total War and Europa Barbarorum II do this brilliantly, with buildings (some of which have no effect - they're there for informations' sake) present in settlements from the start such as holy sites, important buildings and institutions. Their purpose is immersion, which I'd say has a place in any mod hoping to provide an in-depth historical experience. They don't need to be wonders at all, with effects that drastically alter the running of the settlement. This is something I've always thought Stainless Steel lacked; historically crucial cities and regions are left feeling largely like any other, because there's none of the character and spirit these places would've had in real life. Why did people visit these places? What was it like to live in the shadow of some of these fabulous mega-structures? What made this place significant?

Some mods manage to answer these questions and give the player a sense of "being there" in a way others don't. It doesn't have to be done for every settlement; perhaps one or two for a faction would suffice. But they make a huge difference. SSHIP, still in development, has an opportunity to do this.

I have to admit I didn't think about the topic this way. But I like your idea too. I have some ideas already for buildings that would fall into this category.
I'll try to get something done before Easter so I can enjoy my holidays without annoying the family by sticking my head in old history books and the Internet :p

[PerXX]

Is there a limit to number of buildings, and in that case, how many different buildings is max?

[MWY]

The maximum amount of building trees is 128, with a maximum of 9 buildings per tree.
Currently we have 123 building trees in the newest, not yet released hotfix/patch.

[Lifthrasir]

That limits the choice

[Hadhod]

The maximum amount of building trees is 128, with a maximum of 9 buildings per tree.
Currently we have 123 building trees in the newest, not yet released hotfix/patch.

That means 5 building lines left. How many of those would you be willing and able to expend on new wonders?

Another question: Is it possible to have special buildings branch off of normal building lines (e.g. Valens Aqueduct as upgrade from the normal Aqueduct) and if it is possible can one limit these last upgrades to a specific settlement (Paris, Palermo → Cathedral, Constantinople → Aqueduct, Cairo → University). That way one could free up building lines.

[MWY]

@J.Aluna: I already changed the building a bit. I designed something specifically for byzantium. However, in Constantinople, it was not a "colony" of any kind, it was a city quarter. So the term "Italian Trader Quarters", in my opinion, is more correct. I introduced a negative bonus on religion conversion aswell. Specifically an increase in catholics is not that easily possible. If you have suggestions about units, post them. Simply adding merchant cav militia seems pretty cheap. Jurcek mentioned something about gasmuli for byzantium, but we would need units for other factions aswell.

@Hadhod: I don't think we need that many new wonders and I'm against adding wonders in settlements in which they were not (F.E. the Aachen Cathedral). And yes, so far the building trees are far from optimized. If we really need the buildings, I think one can easily get 5-10 more.

Yes, limiting the last upgrades to a settlement is possible. However, the settlement would lack the boni of the last upgrade, so the wonder would need to be more powerful.. (since right now in Palermo: Cathedral+Wonder, after: Wonder Only).

[Hadhod]

@Hadhod: I don't think we need that many new wonders and I'm against adding wonders in settlements in which they were not (F.E. the Aachen Cathedral). And yes, so far the building trees are far from optimized. If we really need the buildings, I think one can easily get 5-10 more.

Yes, limiting the last upgrades to a settlement is possible. However, the settlement would lack the boni of the last upgrade, so the wonder would need to be more powerful.. (since right now in Palermo: Cathedral+Wonder, after: Wonder Only).

I have no clue about modding so please bear with my question: Would adding the boni of the normal cathedral to the special churches be hard and/or timeconsuming to do?

Unfortunately I won't be able to do enough research before Easter so I will only update/upload something after the holidays.

[lolIsuck]

Nope, altering or adding a few lines of text shouldn't be too much work.

[PerXX]

One potential issue with tying wonders to "normal" building lines: If the settlement is conquered by a faction of a culture that doesn't have this building line (Ie. a muslim faction conquers a settlement with a wonder based in the Church building line), then the wonder gets destroyed automatically.

[Hadhod]

I've been rather busy in the past months so I didn't get to work on this, apologies.

If however the Devs are still interested in suggestions I'd try to get some two or three new "wonders" up in here in the next days as I got a bit of free time at the moment.

[Henry X]

Attach it to the walls, but require buildings only available in higher levels perhaps?

[j.a.luna]

It is a good idea make new wonders for maybe some faction that don't have, as england(tower of london), holy roman empire,egyptians(lighthouse of alexandria), selyuk empire and russian(great cathedral of kiev or nogvorod)