Vampire counts question

**DecayWolf** · May 21, 2016, 12:46 PM

Can Mannfred Von Carstein or any vampire die from aging?
Could units like crypt ghouls, horror crypt, vargheists, varghulf and Blood knights suffer from crumbling if all the necromancers and lords with necromancy get snipped out from the battle? Also since it utilizes the moral system, that does means that units which aren't engaged in combat, but are in the middle of the stack not fighting yet, could die from crumbling? Or perhaps a unit flanking an adversary thus taking very low damage in return could start to crumble, if the odds of victory seems impossible to win?

**AgrippaDaRippa** · May 21, 2016, 12:52 PM

No in the Warhammer universe "Time" is very complicated.... lets just put it that they don't age.

It is not quite a morale system... if you have seen gameplay yet it is called binding to their lord/legendary lord. Yes if the Legendary Lord is wounded or the Lord is killed then they suffer crumbling because they no longer have the Lord that raised them from the dead to bind them to existence.

**DecayWolf** · May 21, 2016, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by AgrippaDaRippa

No in the Warhammer universe "Time" is very complicated.... lets just put it that they don't age.

It is not quite a morale system... if you have seen gameplay yet it is called binding to their lord/legendary lord. Yes if the Legendary Lord is wounded or the Lord is killed then they suffer crumbling because they no longer have the Lord that raised them from the dead to bind them to existence.

But does the crumlbing system extend to not raised with necromancy units? Vargheists, Varghulf and Blood Knights were all vampires, ghouls and horror crypts were somekind of beasts that doesn't require to be reanimated in any form, also bats were simply animals being controlated, unless they're zombie bats of course (which is unlikely due the limitations of simplified necromancy penalties for dexterity, which means they shouldn't be abled to fly at all. Advanced necromancy which gives conscience and self awareness although theorically would allow them to fly, but it would require way too much effort/energy for such weak creatures.)

Terror gheist seems to be a master piece work of necromancy, so that makes sense to them to crumble, dire wolfs I'm not sure if they're reanimated or not, so I'll give the benefit of doubt here.

So with all being said, any vampire or beast creature should be 100% immune to crumble.

**Påsan** · May 21, 2016, 01:45 PM

They all crumble. Im not an expert but i think it works that way on the tabletop as well. It kind of makes sense for everything except the necromancers who are the only real humans.

**DecayWolf** · May 21, 2016, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Påsan

They all crumble. Im not an expert but i think it works that way on the tabletop as well. It kind of makes sense for everything except the necromancers who are the only real humans.

Vampires born with aptitude with necromancy (well, that doesn't means they have to be as good as Nagash or Kemmler, also it depends on their bloodlines and clans, but generally speaking Von Carstein are good necromancers.), but by all means vampires doesn't requires a necromancer (which often are on of their servants) to keep them 'alive,' this is utterely ridiculous nonsense, they're all immortals. Neferata the first vampire was created by an experiemnt that did go somewhat wrong, the humans that she gave the gift of vampirism doesn't require to be reanimated by magic.

**KAM 2150** · May 21, 2016, 03:21 PM

The game currently has no vampires besides commanders, yeah no Blood Dragons yet :/ But I think their icon was shown on future FLC list.

**DecayWolf** · May 21, 2016, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

The game currently has no vampires besides commanders, yeah no Blood Dragons yet :/ But I think their icon was shown on future FLC list.

Here is the entire vampire count army rouster -> http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Vampire_Counts_Army_Roster
They' also have not necromancy dependent units like zombies, skeletons and spirits, such the ones that I've named above. Also lore wise, after Nagash's death, the empire of the Tomb Kings was born, instead of the thousands skeletons crumbled.
Tabletop used this crumble system as an excuse to balance their game, which is fine (it kinds makes sense too, for the skeletons/zombies/spirits part.), but it doesn't make the absolute minimal sense even for the most heretic though to expect beasts, animals and vampires to crumble, and TW:W is a completely different game with a different set of rules too.