Administrative education of young generals

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hello,

As I’ve written elsewhere, I feel the education feature of SSHIP is not using its full potential. In particular, the impact of the "Administratively Minded" trait is marginal (just one instance where it matters to get a trait, otherwise only at adoptions/marriages), it has no impact whatsoever on the education process, neither during school age, nor after it. The result is, the Military Minded generals are equally good pupils for management of the cities as those Administratively minded (and they better learn to fight). Which goes against the very idea of the trait.
What I have in mind is to re-do the triggers for gaining the Administrative Education (Western_Edu, Eastern_Edu, Greek_Edu). After all, some triggers are not valid anymore.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For instance, condition for one trait says:
and SettlementBuildingExists = university
and SettlementBuildingExists >= library
which doesn’t make sense in SSHIP since you can only build university while having library. So this is simply redundant, as another trigger for university exists.

I have in mind a general scheme for modification of the triggers and I would like to ask you about your opinion on this scheme.

Abbreviations: ADMind – a Administratively Minded general, MilMind – a Militarily Minded general (traits coded: AdministrativeInclination and MilitaryInclination)

Principles

• Specialization: administrative education is mainly for ADMind, military is mainly for MilMind. Both can gain the other qualities but MilMind with much lower probabilities. (now: there’s no difference)
• Standard education provided by universities: Schools provide basic education, while Universities standard education (now: in a city with School+Library all generals can get standard education very easy).
• Access to Advanced Education: it should be available (but very rarely) also for non-Scholars if there’s the a university/studia_generalia (now: only the rare scholars can get advanced education)
• Libraries make difference for ADMind and, especially, for Scholars.
• Scholars are special: they learn quickly administrative tasks at any level (also lower) (now: they make difference only for Advanced education from university level).

Proposed scheme:

• Schools provide basic education for AdMind (with some chances of standard level), while probabilities for MilMind to get that education is very low;
• Libraries make the chances of education for AdMind higher (=they learn faster), and provide them with some chances of getting standard education; for Scholars they make much difference: they usually get standard; for MilMind there’s no difference.
• Universities is where standard education is meant for AdMind, while militarist can also learn something (basic for MilMind). Scholars can get Advanced Education.
• Great Universities: provide standard education fast for AdMind, give them some chances for advanced education; make standard education available for MilMind (with much time spent learning), and make advanced education easy to get for Scholars (who can learn it after the school age, after all).

The table with %% of generals who get the education level within some years (it’s not code, it’s the logic; there will be random element, of course). Pro memoria: the school age lasts 8 years.

Building................. Levels .............. ADMind..........................Scholar..........................MilMind................
School ...................Basic ...........100% in 4 years................100% in 2 years..........15% in 4 years
..............................Standard............... x .................................... x ..........................,,..... x........,,.....
..............................Advanced.............. x ....,,....,.......................... x ..........................,,..... x........,,.....
........................................................................ ........................ ........................................................
School + Library.....Basic ........... 100% in 4 years ........,,.......100% in 2 years .........15% in 4 years..
..............................Standard .........20% in 4 years ........,,.......100% in 4 years ........,,.....x.................
..............................Advanced ................ x ................................ x ................................ x....................
........................................................................ ........................ ........................................................
University.............. Basic ..............100% in 2 years .........,,.....100% in 2 years .......100% in 4 years
..............................Standard.........100% in 4 years ................100% in 2 years ........15% in 4 years
..............................Advanced................ x .................................50% in 4 years ................x........
........................................................................ ........................ ........................................................
Great University ... Basic ..............100% in 2 years ................100% in 2 years ........100% in 4 years
..............................Standard ........100% in 2 years ................100% in 1 year ...........50% in 4 years
..............................Advanced .........20% in 4 years ................100% in 4 years ............ x..................
........................................................................ ........................ .........................................................

According to the above figures, in the code the probabilities to get a point in education per turn during the school age would be:

Building..................... ADMind.........Scholar.........MilMind.....
........................................................................ ............
School .........................12................15..............3......
........................................................................ ............
School + Library............17................35...............3......
........................................................................ .................
University.....................35................50..............15......
........................................................................ ...............
Great University ............50............70..................20......
........................................................................ .................

So your thoughts, guys, please.
JoC

[Lifthrasir]

This sounds good for AdMind but not for MilMind. None of these buildings had any military education purpose. For instance, universities were specialised in 1 domain: some for the laws, some others for the religion and some others for medicine.
From my opinion, this should be ok in cities for generals able to develop their AdMind. For MilMind, I think it should be something similar but only available in castles or a "mentor" system has to be implemented. But not sure how to do it.

[Jurand of Cracow]

This system is only for Administrative Education, not at all for Military Education. It means that even a Military Minded general has a (very little) chance to learn something in administrative matters, if he sits in a city with a proper educational infrastructure.
The system for Military Education is indeed based on the castles (and battles), so there's another set of triggers, which I'm also going to review and to propose modification, if needed. (I think there's less need for it, but still).

[Lifthrasir]

That makes sens. Thanks for the explanation

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hi there,
Following the scheme described in the first post to this thread, I’ve prepared a EDCT file with the changes.
In particular, for Administrative education:

• For each of three religions (catholic, islam, orthodox) there are now:
  
  • 4 set of triggers for gaining 1 point of AdmEdu for Administratively Minded (for: school, school+library, university, great_university) with percentages: 12, 17, 35, 50.
  • 4 set of triggers for gaining 1 point of AdmEdu for Scholars (as above), with percentages: 15, 35, 50, 70.
  • 3 set of triggers for gaining 1 point of AdmEdu for Militarily Minded (no difference for schooling for library), with percentages: 3, 15, 20.
  
  
• As a result 16 turns spent during the schoolage (WantSchool > 0) in a city with proper building(s) gives on average the following number of points in AdmEdu:
  
  • school: AdmMind 1.92; Scholar, 2.4; MilMind 0.48
  • school+library: AdmMind 2.72; Scholar, 5.6; MilMind 0.48
  • university: AdmMind 5.6; Scholar, 8; MilMind 2.4
  • great_university: AdmMind 8; Scholar, 11.2; MilMind 3.2
  
  
• given the thresholds for the AdmEdu trait (Basic 1, Standard 3, Advanced 10), the in-game results should be in line with the table in the first post of this thread;
• in the code, the caps (lines like “and Trait Western_Edu < 1”) have been removed; the role of the caps is now played by probabilities. However, this has another effect: a player may choose to gamble and to leave a general in the settlement even if he had gotten the required level. First, there’s always a chance of getting higher level. Second, a general can gather some additional points during the schoolage, which may be useful if sometime in life he gets additional points due to the “After School Education” trigger (at the end of the section there’s a trigger which gives a general a 5% chance to gain points in AdmEdu after the schoolage (WantSchool <0).
• the triggers are identical for each of the 3 religions (so: Western_Edu, Eastern_Edu, Greek_Edu).

This is WIP, at some point in future I'll put a full EDCT file with all the changes - until now I've changed Guild Education and Administrative Education, and the birth of Scholar (only for AdMind).

If there're ideas / requests for education issues (section VII in EDCT file), please flag them in this thread.

JoC

[Jurand of Cracow]

So let’s get to the “Military Education” trait. There are three ways of getting it:

• winning battles – with MilMind it’s easier to get education;
• learning at a Castle Library or a Military Academy during the school age (no difference for MilMind and AdmMind).
• finishing the military buildings both in the castles and the cities – for MilMind.

(There are also triggers for other (good and bad) traits from staying in the castles during the schoolage.)
All in all, the solutions are good, and I think the Military Education in SS/SSHIP is much better than the Administrative one. Nevertheless, there’s a space for improvements ;-) Below I propose some principles for changes and some potential implementation of those principles.

To be born in mind:

• Mil_Edu is identical for all three religions, so there’s less triggers overall. Pagan_Edu is different, it's a mixture of Military and Administrative education for the two pagan factions.
• There’re four levels of the Mil_Edu with the thresholds and effects as follows:
  
  • (1) Basic: 10% Movement
  • (2) Standard: Command 1, Loyalty 1, Movement 25% (and + 5 SiegeEngineering)
  • (5) Advanced: Command 2, Loyalty 1, Movement 40%, TroopMorale 1, (and +10 SiegeEngineering, +1 LineOfSight, +2 Comm at Ambushing)
  • (10) Master: Command 3, Loyalty -1, Movement 50%, TroopMorale 2 (and +15 SiegeEngineering, +2 LineOfSight, +3 Comm at Ambushing)
  
  
• I don’t want to change anything outside the EDCT file section VIII (Education). It means I deal within the logic of the four thresholds, using the already existing traits.

Principles

• Specialization: military education is mainly for MilMind, while AdMind can learn something – both at the battlefields, and also “their way”: in a Castle Library and at a Military Academy
• Military matters are acquired mainly at the battlefields, there’s very little education without practice possible.
• At an early age basics can be learned without battles even in the smaller castles, but further learning requires the experience of life in fortresses or citadels.
• Practical skills must be complemented by learning at the education establishments, this can be achieved also later in life. As a result access to Advanced/Master Education should be through learning at the castle libraries/academies while having earlier battlefield experience; age should play lesser role.
• Personal teachers (fathers, mentors) are of particular importance at an early age.

The proposed framework:

• Wooden Castle +
  
  • Basic education for MilMind during the schoolage.
  
  
• Castle +
  
  • Standard education for MilMind during the schoolage.
  • Basic education for ADMind during the schoolage.
  
  
• Fortress with a Castle Library +
  
  • faster Standard education for MilMind during the schoolage,
  • possibility of Advanced for MilMind during the schoolage with battlefield experience,
  • some speeding up of the career of MilMind already with Standard level (any age, with battlefield experience) to get Advanced education,
  • Standard education for ADMind during the schoolage with battlefield experience.
  
  
• Citadel with a Military Academy
  
  • Advanced education for MilMind during the schoolage with battlefield experience,
  • speeding up of the career of MilMind already with Standard level (any age, battlefield experience),
  • speeding up of the career of MilMind already with Advanced level (any age, with serious battlefield experience) to get Master education,
  • Standard education for ADMind during the schoolage,
  • Possibility for ADMind (serious battlefield experience, any age) to get Advanced education.
  
  

The benefits will stack (it’s what I mean by “+” sign), so starting your education at a WoodenCastle will be similarly beneficial for Military Education as starting at a Citadel, but as a general gets to the higher level of education, he will have to get to a bigger military establishment.

Bear in mind that generals can always get their Military education just by fighting the battles. Since this would require a number of battles and much luck, learning at the Military Academy should be attractive for them.

The impact of a skilled father is felt through Coming of Age triggers, so we may abstain from introducing a new trigger for education. However, there’s at least one interesting ancillary – the Mentor (15% chances of acquiring it at Coming of Age if the father has >2 authority). It gives +1 Command, but it could be used in the educational triggers as well.

-------

And here I need your advice, Lifthrasir, MWY & others.

I.
I know two existing traits indicating having taken part in a battle:

• MajorCount – the first threshold is 1, but it counts only crushing victories (BattleSuccess = crushing, PercentageEnemyKilled > 50, BattleOdds < 1)
• VictorVirtue – the first threshold is 6, and it counts only victories in big battles (BattleSuccess; BattleOdds < 2.5, NumFriendsInBattle > 750).

I’m going to use one or both of these traits as conditions for getting higher levels of education (Master from Military Academy, maybe Advanced as well). But for young generals I need a trait which indicates that a general took part in any battle in any role. Do you know if there’s such a trait in the file? I would not like to create a new one, since it would have involved changing other parts of the file/other files.

II.
I know I can put a condition “and HasAncType” in a trigger. But I haven’t found in the modding forae if I can put a condition “and HasAnc” – not for the whole type of ancillaries, but just for a specific one (eg. "and HasAnc Mentor")? Can you tell me?

Looking forward for your advice, if you know what to do.
JoC

[Lifthrasir]

I'm afraid to not be very helpful on this. I haven't work much on that subject.
My question is: you've got a young FM and you want to specialize him in administration but he's in a castle. So basically, you need to move his father to the relevant settlement in order to let him get the right trait, is that correct?

Anyway, here are 2 mods that might give you some ideas:
- Mentor Mod
- Hunter Makoy's Ultimate Education Mod

Note that these are quite old and might have been already implemented somehow. But at least they're good for inspiration I guess

[Jurand of Cracow]

My question is: you've got a young FM and you want to specialize him in administration but he's in a castle. So basically, you need to move his father to the relevant settlement in order to let him get the right trait, is that correct?

Yes, this is excatly how it works now in the SSHIP. In my best city I frequently have a general (or a few) just sitting there and learning. This is a trade-off: either you use them for an expedition, keeping order somwhere, or just leading the troops (I have a home rule not to send any units without a general - this was formally implemented by Byg in BGR, where any stack from 2 units would have rebelled without a general), or educating them.
Furthermore, Coming of Age is important - it's best for the father to be in a very good city. My generals sometimes don't take part in the military expeditions because they have to be in the capital during the CoA moment of their son.

Thank's Lifthrasir for the indication of the mods.

[j.a.luna]

Some of this work about generals will be implemented in the next release of sship?it would be interesting have some traits of this and more funny and challe ge for the gameplay...

[Lifthrasir]

@ JoC, if you read the description of the Mod from Hunter Makoy, his idea about giving a certain amount of turns to a coa general to get some traits by education is interesting. However, it might requiere to decrease that age a bit (from 16 to 14 may be)

@ j.a.luna, we'll see

[Jurand of Cracow]

@ JoC, if you read the description of the Mod from Hunter Makoy, his idea about giving a certain amount of turns to a coa general to get some traits by education is interesting. However, it might requiere to decrease that age a bit (from 16 to 14 may be)

I've gone through the HMUE files and the description, and I think that:
- it's not historically realistic, both as far as buildings are concerned (Castle University etc.), and in the titles (Doctorate of Military Science...);
- implementation would require a lot of work, changing many files etc.;
- the buildings in SSHIP are much more realistic (Castle Library, even Military Academy are plausible) and may be efficiently used for the goals of the mod;
- and, actually the system in the SSHIP does achieve the goals of the HMUE.
I'd think the creators of the SS modified the ideas form the HMUE in a very good way (well, from his file I conclude the WantSchool trait was invented by Hunter Macoy), adding much more (like Military and Administrative Inclination).
What I'm trying to do is just to make some common-sense and historically-defendable tweaks to the otherwise well-functioning SS/SSHIP system .
(the CoA age is already 14, there's 8 years time (WantSchool goes from 16 to 0) for schooling, benefits from the educational buildings etc.)

[Lifthrasir]

Well, I didn't put the link to that mod to implement it but just for information and inspiration
14 years old for coa? Damned, I haven't noticed that

Regarding basic military education, for most of the Western factions, they often referred to the De Re Militari book written by Vegetius during the 5th century if I remember correctly. I also read there was a 2nd book from the Roman period used as reference as well.
I have no info about the Eastern factions not the Scandinavian one.
The ERE has many treaties/manuals on the subject: see here for more info.
I guess that most of the Muslim factions used some of the Byzantine manuals as well (not sure through).

So, all in all, I guess that the way you're trying to implement this is fine. As I'm not especially familiar with the subject, can you expalin your meaning with the 8 years time principle you mentioned? Thanks in advance.

[Jurand of Cracow]

can you expalin your meaning with the 8 years time principle you mentioned? Thanks in advance.

Actually, this is not a historical principle. It's what I'd found in the code of SS6.4 edct file. I belive it was the intent of the SS creators to introduce a system of education of the young generals based on the premise that for the first couple of years after Coming of Age it is possible to learn something easy from the educational premises (like schools and libraries) and after that period it's not easy/not possible to learn. (maybe it was the idea of Hunter Makoy, since in his mode he put's this trait in the part of his changes. I don't know).

The time was probably set initially to 6 years, since in a comment to the trait in the edct file you one may find the following:
;general education for counter for 16-21
;hidden trait as titles make no sense for medieval period"
However, in the code it's set to 8 years, since the trait "WantSchool" is set at the Coming of Age to 16 and then everyturn it goes down by 1. One may guess that the change was made by way of lowering the CoA age to 14. But as you look into the file, there is also the following threshold:
Level Kindergarten
Description Kindergarten_desc
EffectsDescription Kindergarten_effects_desc
Threshold 16
It means that the SS team made it deliberately that education lasts 8 years. I don't know if the decision was made artificially or it was taken from a book on education?
Anyway, it works like this. I don't see fundamental problems historic-wise, and given that I don't want to change the rules fundamentaly, I don't change it.
If somebody would think that Eastern / Scandinavian / Orthodox factions should have a shorter/longer education time, it's easy to be done - the WantSchool parameter may be set faction-wise. But I don't see the point of making that.

[Lifthrasir]

Thanks for the explanation. I agree: no point to change it. I'm fine with it as it gives the option to give traits to young FM.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Now the implementation of the plan for changes in Military Education.


How does it look in EDCT section VIII: Education in the SSHIP 0.9.2:

• 25% chance for 1 pt. from ending move in a Wooden castle for both MilMind and ADMind during whole education, which made the expected value of 4 points (it means: close to Advanced Military Edu);
• 33% chance for 1 pt. from ending move in a Castle or higher for both MilMind and ADMind during whole education, which made the expected value of 5,3 points (i.e.: Advanced Military Edu), additionally: Logistical skills – I think it’s much redundant since Mil_Edu gives faster movement by itself.
• A set of triggers for good traits if a young general with MilitEdu >0 ends his move in any settlement (not only castle, despite the name)
• A set of triggers for bad traits if a young general with MilitEdu >0 ends his move in any settlement (not only castle, despite the name)
• A set of triggers for good / bad cavalry/infantry commander if a young general with MilitEdu >0 ends his move in any settlement (not only castle, despite the name)

Actually, I’d prefer all three sets to work only in the castles, since in the cities even the Military Educated young generals have other things to do; besides there’re many other triggers related to the cities.

How does it look now elsewhere in Education section (related to the battles):

• The Military Inclination does benefit generals on the battlefield – it’s easier for them go get more stars or other traits than for the Administratively Minded (including the Good Commander trait);
• The Military Inclination does not benefit generals on the battlefield in developing their Military Education.
• You can get Military Education from building military buildings in the castles and the cities. However, some triggers from some buildings (those new in the SSHIP, I think) are lacking (e.g. Local Recruitment).

I've made no changes to these triggers.

The changes:

Besides the principles mentioned in the previous post, I make the following distinction: for MilMinded the benefits come from ending the move in the settlement, while for ADMind they come from spending the whole move in the settlement (it’s analogical to their way of learning Adm_Edu).

I’ve used the following traits for triggers:

• For battle experience: Promising Commander (i.e. GoodCommander=1, comparatively easy to get)
• For serious battle experience: Great Victor (gained after: BattleSuccess = crushing, PercentageEnemyKilled > 50, BattleOdds < 1), and alternatively Renown Victor (after BattleSuccess; BattleOdds < 2.5, NumFriendsInBattle > 750, but requiring a few battles won, since it has a threshold of 6).

The player will know when a general is ripe for education since all the three traits are be visible as the general’s traits.


I’ve translated the principles into the code in the following manner:

• Wooden Castle
  
  • Basic education (only) in 2 years for MilMind during the schoolage ending move here (== probability 25% of getting 1 point a turn, there’s a cap of 1 point Mil_Edu)
  
  
• Castle
  
  
  • Standard education in 4 years for MilMind during the schoolage ending move here (with very remote possibility of getting even Advanced) (== probability 25% of getting 1 point)
  • Basic education in 5 years for ADMind during the schoolage spending turn here, very low probability of getting Standard Education (== probability 10% of getting 1 point a turn);
  
  
• Fortress with a Castle Library
  
  • Advanced education for MilMind Promising Commanders during the schoolage ending move here (in 6,5 years) (== probability 40% of getting 1 point a turn)
  • Advanced education for MilMind Promising Commanders after the schoolage ending move here (10 years from zero to Advanced, but usually less if the general already gathered some points) (== probability 25% of getting 1 point a turn)
  • Standard education in 5 years for ADMind Promising Commanders during the schoolage spending turn here (== probability 20% of getting 1 point a turn)
  
  
• Citadel with an Academy
  
  • faster Advanced education for MilMind Promising Commanders during the schoolage ending move here (5 years from zero to Advanced, but usually less if the general already gathered some points) (== probability 50% of getting 1 point a turn)
  • faster Advanced education for MilMind Promising Commanders after the schoolage ending move here (7 years from zero to Advanced, but usually less if the general already gathered some points) (== probability 35% of getting 1 point a turn)
  • possibility to move up to the Master level for MilMind with serious battlefield experience after the schoolage (== probability 20% of getting 1 point a turn, but 40% if is both a RenownVictor and a GreatVictor)
  • possibility to move up to the Advanced level for ADMind with serious battlefield experience after the schoolage (== probability 20% of getting 1 point a turn, but 40% if is both a RenownVictor and a GreatVictor)
  
  

Other changes:

• 5% possibility of gaining LogisticalSkill has been removed (Military_Edu contains +Move benefit, so why it should be)
• The three sets of triggers work only in the castles.

Actually, at one point in the future, the description of the Promising Commander, Great Victor and Renown Victor may be updated with the word “He can now further his Military Education at a Castle Library or an Academy”.

[Lifthrasir]

Sounds good to me. We can adjust that in the future if necessary and depending on the results.
Just a confirmation: I guess that the AdMin is included in your file as well.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Mil_Edu for ADMind is included. But Adm_Edu is included only in the previous file (first post).
Today I'll put online the full version of EDCT file with education: 1. guilds, 2. admin, 3. milit and a new one: 4. other tweaks (pagan, after_school, marriage and adoption).
I think it would be good if I make an entry in the MiniMods section, in place of that "Education and guilds" I had made before.

And one question: in the file on buildings I read that the castle_library is only "denmark, teutonic_order, norway, scotland, hungary, poland,"
So I have a problem with education in the castles for the other factions. What is the educational establishment present in the castles for ALL factions (but pagans)?
(pagans have their pagan_education, so that's not a problem.)

[Lifthrasir]

No need to make another entry there. Once you're ready, just let me know and I can move the whole thread in the Minimods section and merge it with your previous thread in there if necessary You can just send me a PM with all details and I'll do it for you.

Regarding your question about the castle library, you need to contact MWY. Send him a PM. I'm not sure that he's coming here regularly theses days

[Jurand of Cracow]

The last part of the changes, touching the rest of the EDCT file, section VIII. All the changes are in the attached file, this time it’s full section VIII EDCT file and the EDCT file including it (the one I've checked at my computer, I havent' experienced bugs yet).

The problems

1. There's an error in the lenght of the schooling process: - there're now 15 turns of schooling, not 16. This is because the Edu_timer subtracts 1 from the starting 16 immediately, before getting the traits. I think the idea of the SS creators was 16 (in the file there's the trait Level Kindergarten 16) so I think it's an oversight.
2. As I have already mentioned, a Scholar is somebody without military inclination. It bothered me when I saw a combination MilMind-Scholar in my game, besides it's useless for gameplay.
3. There's a bug concerning the Inspiring Teacher trait (a general gets it immediately, not after having a Great Academic 10 years, as intended).
4. The generals offered for marriages and adoptions have little education and they have no chance of education (no “WantSchool” trait). Scholars are also very rare while among those adopted, I think they should appear more frequently (if you adopt somebody it's for his extraordinary skills, isn't? On the other hand, you don’t choose your kids).
   
5. The way of after-school learning for the Scholars is quite deterministic (odds at 50%), while they should develop more erratically.
6. Sitting in the city with Studia Generale or castle with Military_Academy should teach something a general even after he is 22 years old. Furthermore, the benefits from a library in a castle are currently little. Or the very act of managing any settlement does not further the education (as it shold be). All in all, I think a few more triggers could be added.
7. Very old generals can be very efficient administrators and very fast moving due to the benefits of education. Even those with Alzheimer (trait Senile). I think in the old age they should loose (some) of their abilities.

The modifications made in the file:

1. I've moved some triggers to other places in the section to make their place more logical:
   
   • Trigger Edu_timer to the first place so that it's before Trigger Start_edu_count;
   • Medical_Skill_Edu from the middle to the end since it's life-long learning;
   • Guild triggers are at the very end;
   
   
2. I've added "not Trait MilitaryInclination = 1" as a requirement of the Scholar birth, but doubled the probabilities of getting this trait for administratively minded generals (at birth). The probability of such birth for most of the factions is now slightly more than 6%.
3. The bug concerning the Inspiring Teacher trait has been fixed cost-efficiently (by adding 10 instead of 1), even if not perfectly.
4. Marriage and Adoption changes:
   
   • Scholar can be only AdmMind, lower chance of getting one (6% because only 60% of Govts are AdmMind, was 10%; for the Pagans it’s even lower), but added possibility that the general for marriage is a Scholar
   • More chances for getting an educated general at adoption (12,5% for StdAd for the three religions, pagans get minimal higher odds as well)
   
   
5. Scholars changes:
   
   • his trigger now concerns indeed “After School Education”, not during school;
   • slightly slower pace of learning (each turn in a city with university 10%, additional 10% learning from Great Library - before it was 50% just from university);
   • to get Advanced Admin education after the schooling age, he has to work at the university (previously it was school+library);
   • he can learn even in the old age (no "50year-old" cap for him), even if he is not spared from Alzheimer.
   
   
6. I've added triggers for after-school training:
   
   • “Sitting_Around_Castle_Education” - same trait existed for cities with School+Library, but not for a castle with Castle Library;
   • separated benefits from School from that of Library - just to make schools more attractive, it’s a very minor change;
   • “On-The-Job Training” - if a general successfully (people are happy) manages any settlement for at least 2 years, it has a 1% chance of getting one point in Adm_Edu (Inclination doesn’t matter).
   • “Medical_Training” - a general can get it if stays whole turn in a city with Studia Generalia (very low probability: 2%; the other trigger for this trait which existed in the file is bimaristan" 10%) - even with the ignorance of the West concerning medical studies, it's legitimate to give such a chance, I think.
   • “Poet” - a general can get it if stays whole turn in a city with Great Library and he can get it from the castle with Academy as well (both cases very low probability: 2%; two other triggers which existed in the file are Troubadur event for the king, and finishing building Library+ for the generals) - I think it's legitimate given that poetry florished in the biggest castles and greatest cities.
   
   
7. 60year-old generals have chance to lose their education (20% chance to lose a point in Adm_Edu, 30% Mil_Edu), and those with Alzheimer are losing it fast (100% chance to lose 2 points a turn).

I made also some modifications in the previously published parts on Military Education, and Administrative Education:

A. The after-school Mil_Edu is now possible only up to the age of 40, the Adm_Edu up to 50 (well, older generals were not susceptible to the new ideas, weren’t they). Scholars are less affected – they can learn even in the old age, even if with slightly lower efficiency.
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B. In my Polish campaign almost all my young generals got drunk. As I’d noticed in the code, this was due to the fact that actually two triggers related to the young age generals fired: one for starting Mil_Edu and one for starting Adm_Edu. Given that the education was ongoing for everybody on both paths, everyone could drink for two. And these triggers are very high (8%, which meant 16% a turn to get that trait, it’s like second education…), and they fire irrespectively of what they were doing (sitting in the woods?). I have modified these triggers so that only one trigger will fire at a time: for Mil_Edu if a general is in a castle, Adm_Edu if a general is in a city.
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Furthermore, I have reviewed those traits and I’ve

• removed possibility of gaining GoodCommander (NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 3) since it should be gained through battles and the Mil_Edu already provides +Command;
• lowered the probability to get Bad(Cavalry and Infantry)Commander – what’s the point of going to school if the likehood to become Bad and Good Commander is the same?
• for Adm_Edu secondary traits introduced the requirement for spending the whole turn to get them (just to fulfill the logic: Mil_Edu you need to end the move in the settlement, for Adm_Edu you have to spend the whole turn).
• I hesitated a lot if the probabilities for Drink/Girls/Rubblerouser should not be lowered, given that now it’s almost certain to be Drunk after education (if you spend 16 turns in a city you get 128% chance to get a point), but I decided not to change it. This to be checked in practice and also checked with the other triggers for these traits.
• However, given that life in a small castle provides less possibilities for Girls, I made these bad secondary traits available only from Castle+.

Finally, I've modified/added names in the headlines in the file (no impact for gameplay, just for an easier look through the EDCT).

EDCT section 8 Education.txt
export_descr_character_traits.txt

[Lifthrasir]

Holy , now I'm completely confused Mate

Just to keep things clear and to avoid any mistake, can you removed the unecessary files in your previous posts when you put the new updated one?
Thanks in advance