Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia

[Gallus]

Alright so I got the chance to try the game for a couple of minutes today. My first impressions:

+ The art is great. The entire game looks gorgeous.

- Campaign map scrolling - you can't even scroll far enough to see the whole of Scotland at once.
- Settlement overview. It's really confusing at first. So when you select any settlement in a region, you can see all the buildings built in all settlements in that region, like in Attila. However, the names of minor settlements no longer show up if they are not selected. Which is dumb, because you have to click on individual settlements to see which region they belong to.
- Everyone is christian. What is the point of building churches if there's no one to convert? And besides, were Norwegian raiders really christian at that point? I don't think so. I don't think it makes sense for them to build cathedrals.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

- Everyone is christian. What is the point of building churches if there's no one to convert? And besides, were Norwegian raiders really christian at that point? I don't think so. I don't think it makes sense for them to build cathedrals.

One of the worst implemented features. It's really annoying.

[zoner16]

- Everyone is christian. What is the point of building churches if there's no one to convert? And besides, were Norwegian raiders really christian at that point? I don't think so. I don't think it makes sense for them to build cathedrals.

Churches don't just exist for the sake of converting people. Otherwise there'd be no reason you'd see any in heavily Christian areas in real life. They're there first and foremost because the Christian population in the area want a place to practice their faith, hence why a state sponsored chapel provides public order as the population is happy with what you've given them. In return you get part of the tithes to the church, hence the income bonus.

How many of the vikings were Christian at the start date isn't really recorded. What can be said is that all the ones in the isles eventually became Christian and there isn't any evidence that there was resistance to this or any kind of religious turmoil that would have indicated that the Vikings tried pushing their own religion at any point.

[Gallus]

How many of the vikings were Christian at the start date isn't really recorded. What can be said is that all the ones in the isles eventually became Christian and there isn't any evidence that there was resistance to this or any kind of religious turmoil that would have indicated that the Vikings tried pushing their own religion at any point.

That they eventually became christian is a rather lazy excuse imo. The Vikings were never known for pushing their religion. Christians, however, were. So it’s not entirely true that there was no religious conflict. The problem with eliminating religion is that it makes factions even more similar to each other than they need to be.

[NostalgiaFan]

There is literally no evidence that Vikings or Nords who settled around England in this time period became fully christian and no evidence of their being no resistance when everything about the various conflicts between Vikings and their christian neighbors says otherwise.

CA just got lazy like they did with Culture somehow not shown at release which is one of their dumber designs decision based on faulty historical details they clearly did not look into well enough.

[zoner16]

That they eventually became christian is a rather lazy excuse imo. The Vikings were never known for pushing their religion. Christians, however, were.

Hence why how many were or were not Christian at the start date isn't really important. The Vikings weren't pushing their religion and there isn't any evidence to suggest they were really resisting the Christian one, so adding the "religion" slider from Attila would be manufacturing a conflict where one did not really exist. The battles between the factions on the isles were mainly based around culture groups and ancestral loyalties or good old fashioned "we want your stuff because having more stuff is good." Making all the Christian factions and regions get along because they're all Christian wouldn't make things any better, because that's about as untrue as it gets and was mostly an anachronism added on by later historians trying to push a "Britain united against the heathens" narrative. The Welsh shouldn't be happy being under an Anglo-Saxon king just because he happens to be Christian too.

So it’s not entirely true that there was no religious conflict. The problem with eliminating religion is that it makes factions even more similar to each other than they need to be.

The problem with the removal of religion was that you lost the the thing that made steamrolling through regions without so much as a moment to breathe not a viable strategy. Religion never really made factions play differently than one another in any game. It just was another number you had to tick up, separated by the number the other factions had to tick up by its name and nothing else. I was of the opinion that they should have just gone with the culture mechanic instead, but in hindsight that would have put places like Ireland on way too good terms with each other, so the Allegiance mechanic they've decided on is probably for the best. I just wish it was in the game at launch.

[NostalgiaFan]

Hence why how many were or were not Christian at the start date isn't really important.

Wrong it is if you are just going to decided that even Vikings will build churches despite the more likely fact that most of them were not christian enough to care to build them.

The Vikings weren't pushing their religion and there isn't any evidence to suggest they were really resisting the Christian one, so adding the "religion" slider from Attila would be manufacturing a conflict where one did not really exist.

You also have zero evidence they were openly accepting Christianity at this period to want to build churches so your very own point acts against you as it does us. In fact based on how the kingdoms of Scandinavia took a few centuries to even become mostly Christian by the times of the 1100s it makes zero sense to believe they were christian enough in England to already be building churches in the 800s when it would make more sense it would take some time in order to do so. And what you fail to mention is that even if the Pagans were not resisting, the Christians sure as hell were, which is why it is idiotic a Viking faction can just come into a Christian kingdom and not have any problem with the native population of Christians there.

The battles between the factions on the isles were mainly based around culture groups and ancestral loyalties or good old fashioned "we want your stuff because having more stuff is good." Making all the Christian factions and regions get along because they're all Christian wouldn't make things any better, because that's about as untrue as it gets and was mostly an anachronism added on by later historians trying to push a "Britain united against the heathens" narrative. The Welsh shouldn't be happy being under an Anglo-Saxon king just because he happens to be Christian too.

Literally no one was saying this so I don't know where you pulled this out of. And since there are no cultural mechanics than even there the game's historical authenticity is broken and cheapened by the lack of said feature.

The problem with the removal of religion was that you lost the the thing that made steamrolling through regions without so much as a moment to breathe not a viable strategy.

So another reason to why taking it out was stupid and only made the game easier than it should be? thanks for proving why it should have stayed then.

Religion never really made factions play differently than one another in any game. It just was another number you had to tick up, separated by the number the other factions had to tick up by its name and nothing else.

Absolutely wrong. Med 2 playing as a Catholic faction was different than an Orthodox faction from the Crusades, to the Cardinal system to excommunication. Playing as a Muslim faction with Jihads and not having the restriction as Catholics and such, or the Teutonic Campaign where you need a certain amount of people of your faith to even use the strongest units with the crusading nobles and the sacrifices separating them. Region did indeed make factions different when it was involved with more features.

Not to mention this "it's just a number you had to tick up" honestly just sounds disingenuous and oversimplifying in you how can just use this lazy point as a retort against almost anything in the game really, and how it outright ignore the things I just stated in the previous paragraph.

I was of the opinion that they should have just gone with the culture mechanic instead, but in hindsight that would have put places like Ireland on way too good terms with each other, so the Allegiance mechanic they've decided on is probably for the best. I just wish it was in the game at launch.

Really that's it? Because Ireland might be a bit too easy to unify it means we should just get rid of culture along with religion and make it far too easy to conquer Britain as well as break immersion by pretending Vikings and Anglo-Saxons and Celts and Gaelics should be totally fine with the other marching in on their territory? Sorry but that excuse does not convince me especially with the player feedback being mixed at best to compliment my point that the game is still too easy or cheap.

They could have easily made something to keep Ireland from getting too strong like say despite their faith and culture being similar they have less loyalty and are far more likely to rebel than most factions period regardless of who matches their culture and faith which would make complete historical sense since Ireland was far harder to hold on to than previous games have made them out to be and just why could we not have allegiance in the game right besides region and culture to make the game more changeling and less easy, ignoring the "it's just numbers" excuse that I honestly do not see is any different than Allegiance anyway and if it makes the game more challenging and less boring I really could not care less about that.

[somatophylakes]

Sorry for the intrusion, i only wondered if anyone noticed something wrong with the new "testudo" formation, it seems good with archers, but not with javelins, they do a lot of damage and almost decimate my units in that formation that should low the damage of missiles units, instead i see my infantry getting rekt, am i the only who noticed this ? Thanks.

[Pathstrider]

I kind of wish they'd stuck to their guns a bit more - I'm happy with there being culture based public order penalties rather than conquest, but I think I'd have preferred them to be static rather than having culture change.

I think it'd help the game too - you'd have bigger kingdoms form through the game, but one wouldn't be able to get really big as it would be harder to expand outside of its cultural area.

[Daruwind]

New update beta 2 https://www.totalwar.com/blog/allegiance-update-beta-2
Major changes
Decrees

• A new menu has been added to the campaign interface, called Decrees.
• Similar to the Rites feature in Total War: WARHAMMER II, the Decrees screen allows the player to enact one of 4 different decrees that give bonuses to their faction for a number of turns. These could range from bonuses to unit replenishment, big increases to research rate, or triggering Expeditions for the Viking Sea Kings.
• Each Decree costs gold to enact and depending on faction can also have secondary costs, such as faction leader influence or culture points.
• Decrees have individual cooldowns and global cooldowns.
• Decrees can have unlock requirements, such as constructing a certain level of building, winning a number of battles, or researching a technology.
• Some previously event-based mechanics have been merged into this system such as ‘The Witan’ for West Seaxe, ‘Hoards’ for Mierce, and the ‘Fair of Tailtiu’ for Mide.
• The full list of Decrees and bonuses for each faction is detailed in the Balance Changes section of the patch notes.
• Expeditions, along with being incorporated into the Decrees system, have also been reworked so that they no longer have negative outcomes. In addition, each direction of travel is now associated with bonuses:
  
  • The Isles (previously North) for farm bonuses.
  • The Rus (East) for trade bonuses.
  • The Mainlaind (Southeast) to gain bonuses from taking towns or making people your vassals.
  • South to gain income from raiding.
  
  

[Daruwind]

New Blogpost with details about new Blood DLC, will be released 29th August:
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/blood-...nia-blood-pack

steam store page with some pictures etc. :
https://store.steampowered.com/app/8...at_and_Spears/

[Anna_Gein]

The Assembly Kit for TOB will be released along the allegiance patch and the blood pack DLC.

I am so happy about the modding tools

[ThePoshBarbarian]

Thanks for the links @Daruwind, saving me the trouble of posting ‘em using a mobile browser (I’m on holiday atm with no computer, and I’m not coming back till 2 weeks after the dlc release unfortunately )

[Daruwind]

And btw, steamdb for ToB is showing Blood DLC to be previously unknown single DLC for ToB.
https://steamdb.info/app/712100/dlc/
Which is again confirming that there won´t be (probably) any more DLCs/content for ToB...

[Daruwind]

Final blogpost/patch notes for Allegiance update:
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/throne...egiance-update

and short video:

[Jurand of Cracow]

Guys, do you know if somebody's produced a thorough review of how the Thrones experience is now, after the update? I'm considering buying it, but I'd be happy to read or watch something credible. JoC

[ThePoshBarbarian]

The first vid i have isn't a review, it's a small interview with Jack Lusted on the update and the blood, sweat and spears DLC from Cody Bonds, though it's still a little informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wagvqf5bb0

This one is less of a review on the actual content and more a review on the information of the patch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8WixuLmcy0

So far, I've had no luck in finding anyone doing some sort of re-review on the new patch ! Though I will say that it does make the game a lot more playable if it wasn't before.

A posh raider fellow wuz 'ere~

[Daruwind]

I just started yesterday new campaign and it is going fine. Family system, governors, estates, offices are well integrated. The character system, loyalties...intriques feels way more natural than in RotR. No need for agent here. Enough building in Vanilla to actually think a little for each province how to min/max it. I had not so many battles so far, but playing VH West Saxons, but all fight were actually like 15 minutes + very nice slover pace. Definitely Archers are not OP and early cavalry can be used very effectively. Ally actually went twice for near war cordinates, diplomacy no spam, no one turn later 180 degree turnouts... :-) Overall I´m really pleased so far. Running everything on ultra setting, FPS really good.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I just started yesterday new campaign and it is going fine. Family system, governors, estates, offices are well integrated. The character system, loyalties...intriques feels way more natural than in RotR. No need for agent here. Enough building in Vanilla to actually think a little for each province how to min/max it. I had not so many battles so far, but playing VH West Saxons, but all fight were actually like 15 minutes + very nice slover pace. Definitely Archers are not OP and early cavalry can be used very effectively. Ally actually went twice for near war cordinates, diplomacy no spam, no one turn later 180 degree turnouts... :-) Overall I´m really pleased so far. Running everything on ultra setting, FPS really good.

Using any mods buddy ? Or playing vanilla for now ?

[Daruwind]

Seasonal Effects, Shields down while marching and Colorful buttons...Wanted to get more Vanilla feeling after patch + many mods are not updated. Tried smarter battle AI but in two occasions reinforcement AI ally armies just stopped at entering battle map (great help really, won 2vs1 instead of casual 2vs2). So for now Im trying to play without this AI mod...No idea if problem was either mod or base game or if Ai had some superior strategy like, nah, you get it bro, if you need me,im capturing this ...plane near escape root...