[Release]KCC (Kostic Chronology Costumes) - included in the SSHIP 098

[AnthoniusII]

Kostic take a look of these:


Nottice that their primary javelin faces to the front like a small spear.
Do the same.
Select the javelin that has comments primaryactive0 , select bones , assign the javelin to bone_weapon_weapon01
The results:


You know ..I always kjeep helping people....I wish some day someone would help me too...but that's an other story.

[Khevsur]

AnthoniusII

You units are refined and historically accurate. I think you understand medieval armament well

[AnthoniusII]

AnthoniusII

You units are refined and historically accurate. I think you understand medieval armament well

TGC team already had two real history students in its fellowship that today teach history and write articles in history magasines.
Also we dared to asked Timothy Dawson and R.D.Ammato two historians that write those books we read frm Osprey for council .
Last we asked permision frm Hellenic Armors that created Middle Ages Armors (Byzantine) for Dumbttarton Oaks Museum and Research Library.
Last we had writen permision by mr G.Rava and mr Shumate to use their ilustrations for the books to use as inspiration for our creations.
That is why TGC material is OFF LIMITS for any other mod unless it will help us in practice and not in words.

[kostic]

My javelins in primaryactive0 are indeed associated with the bone right_hand... I'm going to do a test with the bone weapon_01 as you suggest to see what changes. Thank you AnthoniusII !


Here are finally my finished Almughavars ! Some pictures :

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Spain

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Spain_ug1

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Pain_ug2

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Portugal

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Portugal_ug1

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Portugal_ug2

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Aragon

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Aragon_ug1 back

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Some info_unit and units cards...

[j.a.luna]

Really a good job my friend!!! Your units always improve sship mod!

I would like see in a future new kostic models for andalusian troops and maybe some berber/bedouin/african (black troops).

But of course you have a lot of work, and little to little sship is more historical and beautiful with your units!

[kostic]

In my work in progress: the Caballeros villanos.
They have 2 levels of protections and I added this unit for Aragon in custom battles while waiting for it to be recruitable in the campaign as well...

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Caballeros villanos low protection

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Caballeros villanos good protection



Some pictures...

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[AnthoniusII]

Υou did not follow my advice about jevelinmen.
1st in EDU make sure that they are described as scirmisers and not as range units.
2nd Watch carefully your far left horseman in your 4th picture that suposed he thrown his javenin but it still remains on his hand.

Now WATCH THESE PICTURES:

In this picture all three phaces of throwing a javelin are present.
The horsemen in the middle is about to throw his javelin, the one in front of him has just thrown his own and the one in the left side is about to take a new javelin to his hands.
See someone that already thrown his javelin from an other angle:


Learn to learn.

[kostic]

Yes. You are right. I corrected this aspect with the Almughavars according to your advice but I did not do it with the Caballeros villanos. I hadn't noticed this problem with the javelin remaining in the thrower's hand. I thought it was just a tip down problem...I'll check it out !

[kostic]

@AnthoniusII: I did the operation you told me but it's not conclusive:
soldiers hold their javelin pointing up (which doesn't necessarily make more sense) then flip it over when throwing it. But the javelin stays in the thrower's hand as long as before.
The javelin disappears after the thrower brings it back under him... even if I choose the bone_weapon01 option...
In the EDU, the unit is well marked "class skirmish"


So what's wrong?

With bone_rhand :

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The javelin should have disappeared from the second image. He disappeared late...


With bone_weapon01 :

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We see that even with the bone_weapon01, the javelin is released - disappears - much too late from the thrower's hand.
I circled the tips of the javelins in green, this time placed upwards.


If you have a solution let me know. I haven't tested:
bone_weapon
bone_weapon02
bone_weapon03


do you know if these animations change this problem?

[AnthoniusII]

Post me their EDU and bmdb entries.
EDIT:
Here how a javelin must look after assigning it to proper bone (red box). The javelin shows light blue.

A tip : DO NOT assign [group] the throwing javelin with those that the warrior keeps permantly in the other hand.
DAMN I think its time for me to release the Gravity/Realism project tutorial but it has too many chapters and its huge.

[kostic]

Then everything is explained ! I don't have the bone_weapon_weapon01 animation in my MilkShape 3D...only bone_weapon01 (as you can see below)
I'm really not very good with animation files, but if there is a simple trick to do so that I can correctly assign the animation of javelin throwers to my units, I'm interested !





Here you have the EDU and modeldb entries:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Caballeros Villanos
dictionary Caballeros_Villanos ; Caballeros Villanos : feudal levy, factional
category cavalry
class skirmish
voice_type Light
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier Caballeros_Villanos, 28, 0, 1
officer northern_captain_early_flag
mount fast pony
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, horse_javelinmen
move_speed_mod 0.95
formation 2, 4.4, 3, 4.4, 3, square
stat_health 1, 3
stat_pri 10, 6, cav_javelin, 55, 8, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, spear, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr area, thrown
stat_sec 4, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 60, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 3, 3, 3, leather ;
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -1
stat_mental 5, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 20
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 3, 1319, 496, 100, 496, 496, 4, 120
armour_ug_levels 2, 6
armour_ug_models Caballeros_Villanos, Caballeros_Villanos_ug1
ownership spain, portugal, aragon, slave
era 0 spain, portugal, aragon
era 1 spain, portugal, aragon
recruit_priority_offset 20
;68

19 Caballeros_Villanos
1 1
64 unit_models/sandy_units/EN_Peasant_Padded/cab_villanos_lod0.mesh 12000
4
5 spain
76 unit_models/sandy_units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/ko_kmail_kmail_spain.texture
77 unit_models/sandy_units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/ko_kmail_kmail_normal.texture
37 unit_sprites/spain_Jinetes_sprite.spr
8 portugal
79 unit_models/sandy_units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/ko_kmail_kmail_portugal.texture
77 unit_models/sandy_units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/ko_kmail_kmail_normal.texture
40 unit_sprites/portugal_Jinetes_sprite.spr
5 slave
77 unit_models/sandy_units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/ko_kmail_kmail_rebels.texture
77 unit_models/sandy_units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/ko_kmail_kmail_normal.texture
37 unit_sprites/slave_Jinetes_sprite.spr
6 aragon
76 unit_models/sandy_units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/ko_kmail_kmail_fland.texture
77 unit_models/sandy_units/EN_Lmail_Hmail/textures/ko_kmail_kmail_normal.texture
37 unit_sprites/slave_Jinetes_sprite.spr
4
5 spain
67 unit_models/sandy_units/AttachmentSets/gs_attachments_spain.texture
68 unit_models/sandy_units/AttachmentSets/gs_attachments_normal.texture 0
8 portugal
70 unit_models/sandy_units/AttachmentSets/gs_attachments_portugal.texture
68 unit_models/sandy_units/AttachmentSets/gs_attachments_normal.texture 0
5 slave
67 unit_models/sandy_units/AttachmentSets/gs_attachments_slave.texture
68 unit_models/sandy_units/AttachmentSets/gs_attachments_normal.texture 0
6 aragon
68 unit_models/sandy_units/AttachmentSets/gs_attachments_aragon.texture
68 unit_models/sandy_units/AttachmentSets/gs_attachments_normal.texture 0
1
5 Horse
15 MTW2_HR_Javelin
13 MTW2_HR_Sword
2
23 MTW2_HR_Javelin_Primary
14 fs_test_shield
2
18 MTW2_Sword_Primary
14 fs_test_shield
16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002

[AnthoniusII]

I find odd that your milkshape does not include that bone. Its not the milkshake that creates the bones but the skeleton tools.
I use GOM extensivly and keep GOAT 1.1 for archers and artilery and mounts (horses espesialy).
Try to convert a mesh of your model to ms3d model with GOM AND see if that bone exists.
The EDU and bmd entries look fine.

type             Acontistae
dictionary       Acontistae
category         infantry
class            skirmish
voice_type       Light
accent           Mediterranean
banner faction   main_missile
soldier          Acontistae, 60, 0, 0.8
officer          roman_officer
officer          Peltastoi_b
mount_effect     elephant +4
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, free_upkeep_unit
move_speed_mod   1.1
formation        1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 3, square
stat_health      1, 0
stat_pri         5, 1, javelin, 50, 3, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, spear, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr    thrown, ap
stat_sec         3, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, blunt, mace, 25, 1.2
stat_sec_attr    ap
stat_pri_armour  6, 1, 1, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        0
stat_ground      3, -1, 1, 0
stat_mental      4, low, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 260, 90, 75, 60, 220, 4, 50
armour_ug_levels 0
armour_ug_models Acontistae
ownership        byzantium, byz_reb, slave
era 0            byzantium, byz_reb
era 1            byzantium, byz_reb
era 2            byzantium, byz_reb

  10 Trapezitae 
  1 1 
  60 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/trapezitae/Trapezitae_lod0.mesh 6400 
  3 
  9 byzantium 
  67 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/trapezitae/textures/trapezitae.texture 
  72 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/trapezitae/textures/trapezitae_norm.texture 
  48 unit_sprites/france_Mounted_Sergeants_sprite.spr 
  7 byz_reb 
  68 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/trapezitae/textures/trapezitaer.texture 
  72 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/trapezitae/textures/trapezitae_norm.texture 
  48 unit_sprites/france_Mounted_Sergeants_sprite.spr 
  5 slave 
  68 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/trapezitae/textures/trapezitaer.texture 
  72 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/trapezitae/textures/trapezitae_norm.texture 
  48 unit_sprites/france_Mounted_Sergeants_sprite.spr 
  3 
  9 byzantium 
  64 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/cavalarii/textures/levy_att.texture 
  69 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/cavalarii/textures/levy_att_norm.texture 0 
  7 byz_reb 
  65 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/cavalarii/textures/levy_attr.texture 
  69 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/cavalarii/textures/levy_att_norm.texture 0 
  5 slave 
  65 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/cavalarii/textures/levy_attr.texture 
  69 unit_models/_Units/byzantine/cavalarii/textures/levy_att_norm.texture 0 
  1 
  5 Horse 

  15 MTW2_HR_Javelin 
13 MTW2_HR_Spear 

  2 
  23 MTW2_HR_Javelin_Primary 
14 fs_test_shield 

  2 
  21 MTW2_HR_spear_Primary 
14 fs_test_shield 

  16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002 

[Jurand of Cracow]

Might be interesting for you, @kostic:
https://www.academia.edu/2080330/The...ork_card=title

[j.a.luna]

Hi kostic, i want make the "iberian" unit roster more historical, so i would like replace the unhistorical and no sense unit called "Basque archers" for 3 options:
1. Replaced basque archers for another iberian AOR unit (for example basque infantry, similar to almughavars as mountains people but less stats and only in Navarra region)
2. Replaced basque archers for a "generic unit" for the 3 iberian faction, similar to caballeros villanos but in infantry. This medieval infantry was called "Peones", was a basic infantry formed for commoners and the base of a iberian medieval army, more in Castilian lands. This infantry had a mix of weapons ( axes, little maces, swords) and some with little shields and leather armour, they were feudal levy.
A brief description:
Peones: they presented a great heterogeneity with respect to their equipment. However, all of them shared some common elements, especially those that served to protect the body, starting with the helmet. Along with this element, some peons used ruffs similar to those used by men on horseback. We also know that they wore breastplates on their torsos, usually made of hardened leather and probably reinforced with metal plates. The use of hand shields, however, was not a common element, but was restricted to those pawns in charge of fighting directly.

3.Another option is modify the light swordmen unit or axes militia unit with a mix of weapons and armours ( commoners with more on less economic power) and called peones for aragon, castile and portugal. They were basic infantry ( feudal levy) for iberians. So recruitable in cities together spear militia and crossbowmen militia ( basic quarters or in estates) and castles as feudal levy.
Also archers and archers militia were very scarce in the Iberian Peninsula due to its more difficult use, the archers should be replaced by the crossbowmen militia and only some Muslim units should have archers in the peninsula, in addition the Andalusian militias were famous for the great use of crossbows, so you could create an "Andalusian militia" like AOR unit with crossbows, small shields and some secondary weapon like swords or axes. They would have a mix of weapons and culture mixing Christian and Muslim models.

[kostic]

@Jurand: Thanks, for the link, but I don't think I have time to study this document, especially since it's written in English and I'm not very comfortable outside my language maternal. I hope that our friend umbracaver can one day, with the help of Khevsur, provide me with a list of improved Georgian units with entries in the EDU and modeldb so that I can replace the old ones.


@j.a.luna: This unit of Basque archers seems to me to have been added at the start of the campaign because I had never noticed it before. Indeed, it clashes in the decor since it seems to have nothing to do here at the start of the campaign !


I am not opposed to replace it with the "peons" as you propose, but it is first a decision that Jurand must make, since it is he who manages the recruitment of the units.
If Jurand wants to keep this "Basque archers" unit, I will do it again anyway to make it more visually credible, because the current one is ugly and anachronistic.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I am not opposed to replace it with the "peons" as you propose, but it is first a decision that Jurand must make, since it is he who manages the recruitment of the units.
If Jurand wants to keep this "Basque archers" unit, I will do it again anyway to make it more visually credible, because the current one is ugly and anachronistic.

I have no opinion on the Spanish units, so you need to assess the historicity of the units and what should stay. Then we organize recruitment for the mod to be a viable game - providing challenge for the players, but with reason.

[Cephalophore]

I think the Basque unit is fine, it's a relevant minor ethnic unit for the period. Pamplona is in the game and by extension Navare and the Basques should stay imo. The nature of the unit is debatable. Welsh, Irish, Basque, Saxon, Armenian, Kurdish, Amazigh/Berber, Bulgar etc all deserve a place imo.

perhaps Kostic would know the role of medieval French populations (Occitans, etc)? I prefer seeing these units in game even if it's a trick to make the game seem more immersive. I find it to be more of a modern condition to view these factions as singular identities like French, English, German, Polish, etc.

[j.a.luna]

I think the Basque unit is fine, it's a relevant minor ethnic unit for the period. Pamplona is in the game and by extension Navare and the Basques should stay imo. The nature of the unit is debatable. Welsh, Irish, Basque, Saxon, Armenian, Kurdish, Amazigh/Berber, Bulgar etc all deserve a place imo.

perhaps Kostic would know the role of medieval French populations (Occitans, etc)? I prefer seeing these units in game even if it's a trick to make the game seem more immersive. I find it to be more of a modern condition to view these factions as singular identities like French, English, German, Polish, etc.

Yes friend, i agree about diversity in minor ethnic and Basques here in Spain have their own language and costumes but also they are spanish, so YES they should be in the game, ONLY in Pamplona (Navarra region), as AOR unit.
But current unit of basque archers is unhistorical and also ugly and have style armour of s.XIV, also basques were famous for their maritime abilities and also were great mountainers, not archers. Maybe could be a maritime unit (Basque sailors, similar to marinae units or basque mountainers a warfare unit)
-The "peones" unit is also an historical basic infantry in all medieval iberian armies, so if have free slots is good make them as a generic iberian unit.

Here some information about basques in middle ages.

https://elkanofundazioa.eus/blog/eus...rria-maritima/

[kostic]

Here is finally my work with the jinetes. They now really distinguish themselves from the Caballeros villanos.
With Jurand's agreement, I will make these 2 units also available for Aragon, because it is both more logical and historical !


I have not yet had Jurand's opinion regarding the Basque archers. Should they be made Basque sailors or Péones ?


I hope you will like these new units.

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I'll let you guess which faction these different jinetes belong to with their 2 levels of protection.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Jinetes for Aragon are very good.

On the Basqes:
- I don't think they should be marinae. They're not tha famous of sailing or fighting on the seas. They're much more related to the mountains.
- I think this was the reason why they were made archers: those who go to the mountains usually were skilled in archery.
- I actually don't know the balance in the types of the units for Iberian Peninsula. I guess (or recall) that on the Christian side there're not so many types of archers in the Stainless Steel, and the Basque Archers were very much in demand. Thus I'd rather leave them be archers, as they are... but I always may be wrong, I don't know the rosters good enough.