Three Kingdoms Historical Information & Discussion

[zoner16]

would you add Ju Shou to the biographers?

Sure. Let me reformat it to fit with the others.

EDIT: I made one in my own style to match the length of the others. I put a reference to yours at the end.

Did they say anything like Romance mode leans more towards the Romance novel than classic mode? Or the lean of the game as a whole?

It looks to me like people in Center are more interested in historic accuracy in the academic sense, always posting about details at the time of the late Han. But I would think the general audience, even if they grew up never knowing about the era, would still be more drawn to popular history, i.e. Romance novel or 300 Spartans. Popular history tends to be anachronistic such as the Guan blade, since most people know way more about even 500 years ago than 2000 years ago. That is more familiar, so it is natural that it is more popular. Inaccuracies in Romance like in many other historical writings are often taken as facts.

One thing Romance does, which I expect will surely make its way into the game, is cut down the number of people you need to know, or even see. In the coalition against Dong Zhuo, events are shifted away from people who die soon to the likes of Cao Cao and Yuan Shu, who are household names compared.

I guess Rome 2 did away with much of the inaccuracies of Rome 1, but for me the only real benefit to gameplay was the single Rome. Most of the inaccurate units in Rome 1 still worked decently in battle, except when chariot turn on a dime and drive through packs of people, but Rome 2 battles just don't work even with basic infantry units.

I don't expect this to be an academically historical game. It's a Total War game meant for popular consumption first and foremost, and its particular stated purpose is to break into a market dominated by the various Romance retellings. So long as the broad strokes are correct, I'll likely be happy. If players who knew very little about the time period can walk away with a proper appreciation for the people involved and a surface understanding of the way warfare worked in this time, then I'll be happy. My posts here are just for the people who want to know a bit more.

At the end of the day, people should play this game and realize that Arch Warhammer's "information" videos on the subject are full of crap. That's my baseline

So the final warlord has dropped and my biography post finally overflowed. Since we now know where everyone starts in game, I figured I'd show off something the guys on Reddit put together and what it means from a historical standpoint:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Cao Cao - Chen Commandery: What they're calling "Chen Commandery" here is essentially half of Yu Province, encompassing Chen, Liang, Pei, and sizable chunks of Runan and Yingchuan. Now there is historical precedence for Cao Cao staying here. The Cao family home of Qiao was in Pei, which is part of this area. In early 190AD, Cao Cao was passing through Qiao to recruit more men after his first army had been destroyed by Xu Rong and a second had mutinied on him down south in Yang.
2. Sun Jian - En Route to Changsha: Sun Jian's return home after the campaign against Dong Zhuo is fairly well storied, however, it takes place in 191AD, a year after the start date. Furthermore, if he's already in Jiangling, then he's already avoided his historical death, which occurred to the north, at Xiangyang. Perhaps an even better idea would be for him to start in Nanyang, under the protection of Yuan Shu and half to journey through all of Liu Biao's territory to reach his home. It would give his dilemma more weight as well.
3. Liu Bei - Dong Commandery: This starting position doesn't have much backing. Liu Bei would've been in Xiami county, in Pingyuan to the northeast in 190AD. He was prefect of that county. He'd soon become commandant of Pingyuan under Gongsun Zan after helping deal with rebels in the area. From what I can tell, his start in Dong commandery is just to place him closer to his dilemma with Cao Cao and Tao Qian.
4. Ma Teng - Wudu Commandery: This "Wudu Commandery" seems to also encompass the upper Wei River valley, thereby incorporating Youfufeng Commandery as well. Since Ma Teng was historically hanging around the Wei River area (though likely closer to Chang'an) this seems to be alright.
5. Liu Biao - Xiangyang Commandery: Liu Biao was indeed at his capitol in Xiangyang in 190AD, but the commandery's name was Nan Commandery, not Xiangyang, which was just the name of the city. The "Xiangyang Commandery" here is actually just the northwestern half of Nan. As for his vassals, Huang Zu is where he should be in Jiangxia, and "Jiangling Commandery" (the other half of Nan) is as good a start position for Cai Mao as can be.
6. Zhang Yan - Yanman Commandery: We don't actually know where Zhang Yan was in 190AD. The area that the Heishan bandits controlled was massive, making up a good part of western Ji Province, much of Bing, and parts of Sili. Yanmen is mentioned in passing as a Wuhuan base that was allied to Zhang Yan, so it's certainly possible he was in the area, but there's nothing to back it up.
7. Yuan Shao - Wei Commandery: Anachronistic by a year or so, as Wei Commandery was where Yuan Shao would make his base after overthrowing Han Fu (his dilemma). Before then, he was administrator of Bohai Commandery, to the northeast by the sea, but he was likely encamped somewhere in the capitol region (probably Henei) to lead the coalition against Dong Zhuo. After that ended, he withdrew to Yanjin (in Wei Commandery) before he turned on Han Fu in 191AD, so this could be why they have him start here.
8. Zheng Jiang - Taiyuan Commandery: Not much to say here. She could've been in Taiyuan in 190AD. She also may not even have been born yet. Nothing can really be ascertained.
9. Kong Rong - Behai Commandery: Kong Rong was Chancellor of Behai since 189AD so this is as on the nose as you can get.
10. Yuan Shu - Nanyang Commandery: Yuan Shu had taken over Nanyang during the days of the coalition in 189AD after Sun Jian had killed its administrator. While his reign didn't historically last very long, it is right to have him start here.
11. Gongsun Zan - Youbeiping Commandery: Gongsun Zan was indeed the military administrator of Youbeiping, though he was technically Liu Yu's subordinate.

Some interesting things to note is that only one warlord has a base on the southern side of the Yangtze (Sun Jian), despite the collectors edition map showing that the south has a settlement density equal to the north. So there's going to be an entire half of the map without playable factions in it.

[AHumpierRogue]

Some interesting things to note is that only one warlord has a base on the southern side of the Yangtze (Sun Jian), despite the collectors edition map showing that the south has a settlement density equal to the north. So there's going to be an entire half of the map without playable factions in it.

​​For Now​​

Get ready to open your wallets boys, Southern Warlords/hopefully also a dlc featuring the Shanyue and Nanyue(and definitely the Nanman at some point after release) here we come.

I just hope they also extend the edges of the map a bit in some areas(and by a lot in others) but that's a topic for another day.

[JackDionne]

Of all the threads I have read on this forum over the years. This one is one of the best, great job to all the members!