No Naval Battles in 3K folks.

[captainkrunch]

In this video, around the 11:40 mark.

You heard it here first guys. No Naval battles in 3K. I'm just gonna repost my thoughts from the official forums here.

Here goes: I have been trying, so desperate trying, to convince myself that this was not the case but this is just what I feel. Honestly, the main reason I am disappointed even after the initial shock, is with this I feel like CA just doesn't -get- the period beyond Dynasty Warriors. They don't view this setting as anything more then their favourite buzzword, "CHARACTERS". Everything is characters. Apparently there won't even be that much variety(even though there should atleast be a bit), because well, CHARACTERS are where the variety is you guys! Dont ya know! The Characters have come to town!

There. I'm done. I have been trying to defend 3K for a while because of how excited I was for it. But not this time.

[ParthianWarrior]

Do we really need naval battles? I know the Battle of the Red Cliffs was a major event during this period, but naval combat wasn't particularly noteworthy or interesting beyond that. The Wu definitely used naval tactics to their avdantage, but perhaps this will take the form of certain mechanics instead.

[Seether]

I know the Battle of the Red Cliffs was a major event during this period, but naval combat wasn't particularly noteworthy or interesting beyond that.

Except for the Battle of Dongkou, multiple major battles at Ruxukou, and many more...

[ParthianWarrior]

Except for the Battle of Dongkou, multiple major battles at Ruxukou, and many more...

Yeah, but what happened during these battles? Were they any different from naval battles during the age of antiquity (and people complained about naval battles in Rome II/Atilla being too boring)?

[Seether]

I’m not arguing for/against any of that, just pointing out that Chibi was far from the only interesting or noteworthy naval battle during the Three Kingdoms era.

[captainkrunch]

As far as I am aware most naval battles in this game would be more like Shogun 2(minus the gunpowder of course) with archer fire between ships and boarding actions, not the ramfest that was Rome 2 and Atilla. Personally I enjoyed that combat so it would have been nice.

[kelembribor21]

Yeah people complain about some features , but instead improving them just remove them...

[Huberto]

Wow, I wouldn't have guessed this. Huge step backwards for Total War.

[Altimis]

I don't like naval battle in this game anyway, all the time, auto-resolve. The game just do it terrible jobs...

But would be sad, Battle of Chi Bi, still want to see it how is it in this game. BUT I can guess, its would be pretty unpredictable as usual.

"Entire unit has been perished!" spams >_> *sign* what a mess.

[PointOfViewGun]

Do we have an actual statement coming from CA itself on this? It wouldn't make sense to invest on making rivers navigable but not on having river battles themselves.

[Daruwind]

Do we have an actual statement coming from CA itself on this? It wouldn't make sense to invest on making rivers navigable but not on having river battles themselves.

Actually not a statement but article: https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-t...s-classic-mode

Obviously most of the theatre is inland. Is there any ocean? Any naval battles?
Gaspar: We’re not talking about naval battles now, but the majority of the game is about land conflict. Percentage-wise, this is the largest landmass in Total War so far, I think.

Walter: Yeah, it’s the whole landmass of China, nothing’s cut off or anything. It’s the same size as Attila, I think?

Gaspar: Yeah, not in shape, but in overall distances.

CA has also not show any province/region system/details, we have seen no footage about Classic mode so possibly they might have something in the sleeves yet... Like we won´t see only naval battles but beach landings? Water crossings? Some weird new combination of land/water battles?

[Ngazi]

No naval battles could mean either there are just no ship units on the battle map ever, or there are no battle maps with nothing but water. Obviously knowing CA both are probably true.

[PointOfViewGun]

Actually not a statement but article: https://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-t...s-classic-mode
CA has also not show any province/region system/details, we have seen no footage about Classic mode so possibly they might have something in the sleeves yet... Like we won´t see only naval battles but beach landings? Water crossings? Some weird new combination of land/water battles?

To me their words indicate focus, not limitation. They specifically say that the majority of the game is about land conflict, which is in itself is acknowledgement that part of the game is about conflict over water. I just wouldn't bet too much attention on how detailed the river battles will be as such battles were not that common back then I suppose.

[captainkrunch]

To me their words indicate focus, not limitation. They specifically say that the majority of the game is about land conflict, which is in itself is acknowledgement that part of the game is about conflict over water. I just wouldn't bet too much attention on how detailed the river battles will be as such battles were not that common back then I suppose.

I mean, yeah they weren't very common at all if you ignore literally every single campaign south between Wu and Wei aswell as the most famous battle of the entire period, the Battle of Chibi, being a naval battle. But yeah if you just ignore that tiny little detail it isn't very important at all! ...

Also that "We're not talking about naval battles now" is a different statement, there was another statement where CA just denied naval battles.

From this article https://wccftech.com/total-war-three...s-interview/3/ , a much different statement which is a flat out denial of naval combat

Al: It’s really about the conflict on the mainland, so we’re not simulating naval battles.

[PointOfViewGun]

I mean, yeah they weren't very common at all if you ignore literally every single campaign south between Wu and Wei aswell as the most famous battle of the entire period, the Battle of Chibi, being a naval battle. But yeah if you just ignore that tiny little detail it isn't very important at all! ...
Also that "We're not talking about naval battles now" is a different statement, there was another statement where CA just denied naval battles.
From this article https://wccftech.com/total-war-three...s-interview/3/ , a much different statement which is a flat out denial of naval combat
Al: It’s really about the conflict on the mainland, so we’re not simulating naval battles.

Were you sitting on that article all this time? It's a much more clear evidence that there will be no naval battles. Thank you...

[captainkrunch]

Yeah sorry I guess I just forgot to post it.

[Kinjo]

Can't say I'm too excited about this or 3K, but it is what it is.

[Seether]

In truth all naval battles (Dongkou, Ruxukou, Chibi, etc.) during the Three Kingdoms period were not just battles fought between ships on the water; they were always in support of ground-based operations. Many people have the misconception that Chibi, in particular, was strictly fought on the water and only consisted of ship-borne actions, which isn’t remotely true. The naval aspect of Chibi was extremely decisive (and hence is more famous), but was only one aspect of the battle, as the ground operations by Liu Bei, Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, Zhou Yu, etc. in routing Cao Cao’s forces in the region, during and following the naval engagement, were by far the most important part of the battle, as it pushed Cao Cao out of nearly all of Jing province and allowed Liu Bei and Sun Quan to take over the rest, then partition it.

[Huberto]

In truth all naval battles (Dongkou, Ruxukou, Chibi, etc.) during the Three Kingdoms period were not just battles fought between ships on the water; they were always in support of ground-based operations. Many people have the misconception that Chibi, in particular, was strictly fought on the water and only consisted of ship-borne actions, which isn’t remotely true. The naval aspect of Chibi was extremely decisive (and hence is more famous), but was only one aspect of the battle, as the ground operations by Liu Bei, Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, Zhou Yu, etc. in routing Cao Cao’s forces in the region, during and following the naval engagement, were by far the most important part of the battle, as it pushed Cao Cao out of nearly all of Jing province and allowed Liu Bei and Sun Quan to take over the rest, then partition it.

What's odd is that these kinds of battles are similar or easily adaptable to what CA featured in TWR2 and Attila. Think of a typical town port battle in either game. It's hard to imagine why they can't just transform the "ocean" into a wide river and have the same kinds of operations...I'm going to offer a wild guess and say it has to do with hero units not functioning well aboard naval vessels.

[PointOfViewGun]

Can the OP contact a moderator with the following poll request? Ask people if they look forward to playing a naval engagement with the options to say Yes, No, Not Sure, and Don't Care. The results will likely be different than what people expect them to be.