SCOTLAND

[Sllhouette]

ill upload my save if you really want it, but its nothing interesting now, back to standard game. i took over the british isles and now i'm fighting the remains of france (south france and much of spain) and the HRE. my spies are everywhere, rome is surrounded by my bishops, my merchants own everything, and i assassinate the pope every turn. the really fun part with the hard decisions and the endless struggle was at the beginning. now i just recruit endless knights, scots guard, etc. i like that france and HRE have such powerful armies that even with my wealth, i keep struggling to kill, they grind me down. really reminds you how limited scotland was supposed to be, wasn't supposed to be a big power, and its making me want to revolutionize my kingdom with gunpowder because even the lowest soldiers of these top countries are so well armored!

[Sllhouette]

i'm only able to build men at arms (horse) at my capital in edinburgh. i have several maximum level King's Stables in other castles, but none of them can make this unit. plus, the unit only has 1 available, which makes it harder to get any (i've only ever had 1 in my many armies), and its stats don't seem that much better to make it so exclusive. slightly worse i think actually. was this intentional? i can make endless chivalric knights from all over the continent because of landowners, but i would think men at arms horse would be more common in the 1450 time period than noble horse

[Jurand of Cracow]

i'm only able to build men at arms (horse) at my capital in edinburgh. i have several maximum level King's Stables in other castles, but none of them can make this unit. plus, the unit only has 1 available, which makes it harder to get any (i've only ever had 1 in my many armies), and its stats don't seem that much better to make it so exclusive. slightly worse i think actually. was this intentional? i can make endless chivalric knights from all over the continent because of landowners, but i would think men at arms horse would be more common in the 1450 time period than noble horse

well, this late era cavalry unit recruitment is as it was in the SSHIP v. 092 - as I haven't had time to modify it. sorry.

[Sllhouette]

nobody can blame you for the hard work you do for us, jurand, don't apologize. i hope you don't take my posts as complaints; i enjoy the mod very much, and i want to be helpful by pointing things out so they come to your attention. its what little "help" i can give back

[Vaalaw]

Playing early Scotland for my first SSHIP campaign and having a great time. I do have a question and few notes though;

Question - the Scottish reforms are not working yet, so the text you get about David's reforms are just flavor for now right? I'm not supposed to built specific buildings to get access to the saxon units mentioned in the popup because the reforms don't actually happen yet, right?

And some comments -

--- main complaint is that you suffer from being an island because you don't have access to boats <- (means no trade, no alliances, etc.)

- You only get missions to capture ireland, and since you can't get boats for quite a while it can be a little annoying to keep failing missions when you really need that money.

- You're forced to conquer England if you want to get boats since you can't build ports in your castles, and the nearest town is an English one 2 provinces to the south. (you could convert a castle but ugh)

- My opinion but the roster feels a little limited, maybe this is intended but it's a little sad when, for example, England gets access to more melee infantry, more ranged, and more cav even early on.

- Your finances are so bad that if you want to actually try and improve your settlements you're, again, forced to conquer England pretty quick. I think this is a little unfortunate because personally I like to try and expand semi-historically and I find it more fun to keep rivals alive and fight many wars over time instead of zerging them.

I actually really like the campaign and am having a lot of fun with it so far, but I figured I'd share my feedback for what seems to be a less played faction.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Question - the Scottish reforms are not working yet, so the text you get about David's reforms are just flavor for now right? I'm not supposed to built specific buildings to get access to the saxon units mentioned in the popup because the reforms don't actually happen yet, right?

And some comments -
--- main complaint is that you suffer from being an island because you don't have access to boats <- (means no trade, no alliances, etc.)
- You only get missions to capture ireland, and since you can't get boats for quite a while it can be a little annoying to keep failing missions when you really need that money.
- You're forced to conquer England if you want to get boats since you can't build ports in your castles, and the nearest town is an English one 2 provinces to the south. (you could convert a castle but ugh)
- My opinion but the roster feels a little limited, maybe this is intended but it's a little sad when, for example, England gets access to more melee infantry, more ranged, and more cav even early on.
- Your finances are so bad that if you want to actually try and improve your settlements you're, again, forced to conquer England pretty quick. I think this is a little unfortunate because personally I like to try and expand semi-historically and I find it more fun to keep rivals alive and fight many wars over time instead of zerging them.
I actually really like the campaign and am having a lot of fun with it so far, but I figured I'd share my feedback for what seems to be a less played faction.

Thanks for sharing your observations!
David's reforms - yes, it's just an automatic event.

a boat: good point, I'll add a boat at the beginning.
roster: yeah, we need to work on it. as on many other...
finance: I agree. But if you conquer England, you're losing to "special" money. This was the thought behind it. But perhaps you're right.

[Sllhouette]

Vaalaw all your points are valid but i feel this is just the natural byproduct of being Scotland. im now more than 500 turns in. scotland isn't an international player in history, at least early on, your only purpose is to be an eternal menace to england. making a port is an immense effort to invest in, it does seem more fair to have a boat given to you at the start. ive seen other scotland players conquer england early on because they zerged the AI like you said. but you don't have to play that way, you can be semi-historical, i did. it was almost 200 years of misery. but once you start making some uphill progress, it feels way more rewarding as a scottish empire than playing someone with a large start, like HRE. every turn was life or death decisions and it made the mod so worth it. now that i have a good-sized empire, i find myself feeling like the tired king, with corrupt nobles, rebellions, papal problems, diplomacy headaches, useless sons... i almost miss being simple scotland and my old Norman enemies

[Vaalaw]

Thanks for the feedback on my feedback! Also thanks Jurand for answering my question. I can't wait for the reforms to be added

As I said my main problems with not having a boat is that it stops you from carrying out any diplomacy unless it's with England, and the AI only gives you missions to attack Ireland.

One solution for problem #1 is just placing the diplomat in Normandie at campaign start. Simple fix and no need to give Scotland a port early game.

For the Ireland missions I'm not sure if there is a way to script the game to give you other missions or to ignore Ireland because I agree that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go for Ireland right away unless you're going for a very aggressive campaign. Having a boat right away will absolutely incentivise taking Dublin early.

Maybe these are better solutions because I agree with Silhouette that Scotland should be a fairly lonely and challenging campaign that rewards patience over many turns.

Jurand I think you're much better at judging if the financial aspect is working as intended. Maybe with the diplomat or boat changes the campaign dynamic will shift and new opportunities to deal with $$$ will open up.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I think an initial boat should be ok. It enables transporting a diplomat to the mainland. It also allows to make an invastion on Ireleand, if it's required. If the player is unattentive, then he may lose this boat - and he's in trouble then. So it's better to moor it most of the time - until a settlement is developped to such size that a port can be built there.

[Vaalaw]

I think an initial boat should be ok. It enables transporting a diplomat to the mainland. It also allows to make an invastion on Ireleand, if it's required. If the player is unattentive, then he may lose this boat - and he's in trouble then. So it's better to moor it most of the time - until a settlement is developped to such size that a port can be built there.

I didn't think about the pirates taking out the boat, that sounds like it would work well yeah.

If you don't mind sharing, what are the reforms that are planned?

[Jurand of Cracow]

I didn't think about the pirates taking out the boat, that sounds like it would work well yeah.
If you don't mind sharing, what are the reforms that are planned?

Well, when I get to that stage, I'd think about something related to defeating England and creation of the Union under rule of Scotland. Scotland is difficult to be very historical - you may easily imagine Spain united by Portugal, or a large kingdom of Hungary, or the Near East united by the Zenghids - but Scotland... the only way would be to take over England. And this is quite a fantasy, unless you think in dynastical terms - what actually happend.

[Vaalaw]

Well, when I get to that stage, I'd think about something related to defeating England and creation of the Union under rule of Scotland. Scotland is difficult to be very historical - you may easily imagine Spain united by Portugal, or a large kingdom of Hungary, or the Near East united by the Zenghids - but Scotland... the only way would be to take over England. And this is quite a fantasy, unless you think in dynastical terms - what actually happend.

Is there maybe a way to create an event to unite with England when you get to a certain point? Maybe pay a large amount of gold once you've taken a significant amount of English settlements to unite the crowns peacefully, giving you control of the rest of English territory in the British Isles (would be interesting if the remaining English territory on the continent becomes rebels or even French to simulate resisting English nobles).

I'm just spitballing I have no idea if that's even realistic to script.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Is there maybe a way to create an event to unite with England when you get to a certain point? Maybe pay a large amount of gold once you've taken a significant amount of English settlements to unite the crowns peacefully, giving you control of the rest of English territory in the British Isles (would be interesting if the remaining English territory on the continent becomes rebels or even French to simulate resisting English nobles).
I'm just spitballing I have no idea if that's even realistic to script.

I'm not sure it's possible to code :-(

[Vaalaw]

Understandable !

[Sllhouette]

i'm after 1450 right now. does scotland get access to gunners anytime soon? ive seen france field arquebusiers, and the HRE has been fielding handgunners since forever. playing this mod has made me respect handgunners more, i used to think they were useless. the germans always have powerful armies with good variety in technology, i enjoy fighting them. while i've been using ribaults as an anti-armor solution, and now use culverins, i'm starting to worry scotland doesn't get guns. i've had to rely on mercenary arquebusiers who really help me fight heavy german gothic plate, even if they're reduced to 20 men their guns still change the battle.

i understand scotland (and other "weak" nations) are not supposed to have the most robust unit roster. im finding that my once good units are now not enough to handle modern wars. i need some arquebusiers to handle the endless stacks of plate. please tell me they aren't removed from scotland

last thing, might not be specific to scotland, but im finding the halberdiers are the only unit that can't have their armor upgraded. their next upgrade says "three quarter renaissance plate" so i'm guessing i need to enter the 1500s to unlock their upgrade. they are the only unit i've seen so far with that armor path

[Sllhouette]

nevermind! i checked scotland's roster in custom battle menu. i see the foot and mounted calivermen, excellent. i don't know what buildings im missing, or if i have to wait even later. i also see the late general's bodyguard, and i'm confused why all my generals are still wearing 300 year old mail

[Jurand of Cracow]

Anyway, upload your save, pls. It's impressive to get to year 1450 in the SSHIP B-)
I think @kostic concentrates on 12 and 13 centuries, and my modding as well. This because "first things first" - once we're done with these centuries (in my case: buildings, recruitment, reforms etc.), then we'll be able to go into the later centuries.

[Sllhouette]

damn, does that mean most of the late game is unfinished? i was staying with my campaign so long because i wanted to see what the late game was like. i'll ride out this campaign to the end and give my thoughts

here is my save file scotland.7z

[Jurand of Cracow]

damn, does that mean most of the late game is unfinished? i was staying with my campaign so long because i wanted to see what the late game was like. i'll ride out this campaign to the end and give my thoughts
here is my save file scotland.7z

well, have a look at the reported games, and answer youself

[Sllhouette]

WHAT THE? wow let me change that poor statistic