Military Orders (Latin)

[Jurand of Cracow]

Playing England around round 90 my Hospitaller units disappeared from the recruitment.
Did I offend someone with my attack on fellow catholics in Scotland?
Or did I miss some info?

bad reputation. Reputation is indeed a problem in the SSHIP. You must fight battles in order to release the prisoners - this increases reputation (@Macaras can have more info on this).

recruit_pool "Knights Hospitaller" 1 0.05 2 0 requires factions { jerusalem, } and event_counter knights_hospitaller_buildable 1 and event_counter order_recruitment_enabled 1

;====================================================================================================== Orders Recruitment Requirements
;------- Orders Recruitment Requirements


set_event_counter order_recruitment_enabled 0


monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart TrueCondition
set_event_counter order_recruitment_enabled 0
end_monitor


monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart TrueCondition
and GlobalStanding > -0.3
and not FactionExcommunicated


set_event_counter order_recruitment_enabled 1
end_monitor

[Macaras]

I guess its good, intended by the creator, that the military orders are not available for very bad rep ? That was not my idea, but I always liked it.. It matches the general vision of stopping snowballing - better units for respected factions. Maybe just the information about this is not emphasised enough ?

BTW - to get good reputation - release prisoners, take part in crusades/jihads, build big temples and charity centers, assist allies. And also do not start wars, do not slaughter prisoners, regardless if by rejected ransom or directly.

[j.a.luna]

What are the requirements to recruit the military orders? I think there should be a player information window about it...
Do you need to have mixed reputation? How many crosses do you need to have with the Pope?
When do these recruiting units disappear?
I think a review of their recruitment is also needed (perhaps less available and you can only recruit a few in a long period of time to make them more valuable).
The player should be given the opportunity to recruit them more often (perhaps permanently in the Holy Lands for all military orders, Iberian peninsula for Santiago order, and Teutonics in the Baltic lands).

[j.a.luna]

Another question about military orders, in my sicilian campaign can recruit foot hospitaller knights in the first stage of order chapter but for teutonic knights the first stage is for mounted ritterbruders... Why? Also In most of my Italian settlements I can recruit Hospitallers and only in Palermo the Teutonics but unfortunately only the first level (cavalry) why is it?
On the other hand, the Templars didn't have a chapter house anymore and it would be easier to find them?

- In addition, regarding the Iberian factions, I think that the Knights of Santiago should only be recruitable in Iberia by the Catholic factions, but for the Iberians they could build them in other areas, also, above all, the Templars had numerous possessions throughout the Iberian Peninsula and helped in numerous battles against the infidels (see the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa, the conquest of Lisbon by the Portuguese, the conquest of Palma...) I think this should be reflected in the game through more Templar chapter house in Iberia and Templar reinforcements and European crusaders from time to time in the form of expeditions in Iberia.

[Jurand of Cracow]

What are the requirements to recruit the military orders? I think there should be a player information window about it...
Do you need to have mixed reputation? How many crosses do you need to have with the Pope?
When do these recruiting units disappear?
I think a review of their recruitment is also needed (perhaps less available and you can only recruit a few in a long period of time to make them more valuable).
The player should be given the opportunity to recruit them more often (perhaps permanently in the Holy Lands for all military orders, Iberian peninsula for Santiago order, and Teutonics in the Baltic lands).

Another question about military orders, in my sicilian campaign can recruit foot hospitaller knights in the first stage of order chapter but for teutonic knights the first stage is for mounted ritterbruders... Why? Also In most of my Italian settlements I can recruit Hospitallers and only in Palermo the Teutonics but unfortunately only the first level (cavalry) why is it?
On the other hand, the Templars didn't have a chapter house anymore and it would be easier to find them?

- In addition, regarding the Iberian factions, I think that the Knights of Santiago should only be recruitable in Iberia by the Catholic factions, but for the Iberians they could build them in other areas, also, above all, the Templars had numerous possessions throughout the Iberian Peninsula and helped in numerous battles against the infidels (see the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa, the conquest of Lisbon by the Portuguese, the conquest of Palma...) I think this should be reflected in the game through more Templar chapter house in Iberia and Templar reinforcements and European crusaders from time to time in the form of expeditions in Iberia.

these are pertinent questions and comments. As said, this part of the game awaits modding time to be spent on.

[j.a.luna]

these are pertinent questions and comments. As said, this part of the game awaits modding time to be spent on.

Ok perfect Jurand, we hope can solve soon!

[j.a.luna]

@Jurand now that you are modifying the military orders chapter houses, what is your idea?

1.For example, will it still be possible to recruit Templars, Hospitallers and Teutonics in the same settlement?


2. Will you add sergeant units for military orders and not just knights?


3. Will you add more military orders in Iberia in addition to the one in Santiago? (Calatrava, Montesa...), as well as adding more templars chapter houses in Iberia as it really happened.


4. Will there be some requirements to be able to have these chapter houses, as well as achieve their headquarters or will they already come preset?


5. Reflect the importance of the Order of the Temple (Templars) both its military strength and the great bankers and landowners that they were (they used the bill of exchange for the first time), as well as their future dissolution in exchange for money (as The King did French Felipe IV) in the s. XIV.

[Jurand of Cracow]

@Jurand now that you are modifying the military orders chapter houses, what is your idea?
1.For example, will it still be possible to recruit Templars, Hospitallers and Teutonics in the same settlement?
2. Will you add sergeant units for military orders and not just knights?
3. Will you add more military orders in Iberia in addition to the one in Santiago? (Calatrava, Montesa...), as well as adding more templars chapter houses in Iberia as it really happened.
4. Will there be some requirements to be able to have these chapter houses, as well as achieve their headquarters or will they already come preset?
5. Reflect the importance of the Order of the Temple (Templars) both its military strength and the great bankers and landowners that they were (they used the bill of exchange for the first time), as well as their future dissolution in exchange for money (as The King did French Felipe IV) in the s. XIV.

1 yes
2 there're already sergeants in the Chapter buildings, so they will be there
3 perhaps not, but we'll see
4 as for now, they're related to the historical events. but they may be coded in the EB2 way, we'll see
5 there's the dissolution script already in the mod, as it was in the base Stainless Steel

[j.a.luna]

1 yes
2 there're already sergeants in the Chapter buildings, so they will be there
3 perhaps not, but we'll see
4 as for now, they're related to the historical events. but they may be coded in the EB2 way, we'll see
5 there's the dissolution script already in the mod, as it was in the base Stainless Steel

TEMPLAR ISSUE:

@Jurand would there be some way to represent in the game, the way in which the templars were so important in Europe and the Middle East? I have read numerous historical articles that the Templars were great bankers and worked as the first multinational company through their parcels, regulating numerous mortgages and loans to kings, great nobles and other entities, even sometimes great crusading nobles left their treasures behind. Europe safe from the Templars for their trust and honesty.

You could do some interactive event where the templars offer you a big loan of money if you are suffering from a shortage of funds (loan of 20000?) in exchange to build their chapter houses on your land (with a high maintenance cost simulating your monetary donations to them) and that you have to allocate military forces to fight against the infidels in the Holy Land or Iberia.


I don't know how to reflect this in the game. I think it would be very immersive, in addition to not only limiting the Templars to their military units, but also to their high influence in Europe and their large multinational banking system (for which they became very powerful and rich, and they also aroused a lot of envy and greed towards them...)

[Jurand of Cracow]

You're right that the Templars had Europe-wide impact on the financial system. However, this is much overstated due to the historical sources that were produced, were preserved or are present in our culture like movies or books. So, given that these were real things, I'm not sure providing a loan would be a good depiction of their historical impact, even if they functioned as financial institutions to groups of private persons.
I'd think that adding a faction-wide impact on trade (which also means that it's scaling with the size of the faction) would provide a better depiction.

[j.a.luna]

You're right that the Templars had Europe-wide impact on the financial system. However, this is much overstated due to the historical sources that were produced, were preserved or are present in our culture like movies or books. So, given that these were real things, I'm not sure providing a loan would be a good depiction of their historical impact, even if they functioned as financial institutions to groups of private persons.
I'd think that adding a faction-wide impact on trade (which also means that it's scaling with the size of the faction) would provide a better depiction.

Agree @Jurand, this may be a solution to reflect the importance of the Templars in the financial system of medieval Europe...

[j.a.luna]

@Jurand i dont know if you know the importance that the Templar order had in the Iberian Peninsula and specifically in the kingdom of Aragon... From the will of Alfonso I who left his Aragonese kingdom as an inheritance to the Templars and Hospitallers (which the nobles fortunately prevented) until the conquest of Mallorca by Jaime I helped by the Templars (he himself was educated with Templars), even some grand masters were "Spanish", of Aragonese origin such as Gilbert Herai or Pedro de Montaigu...It would be nice if you could represent it in the game through the chapter houses or even with a script where Aragon receives Templar help (similar to the script where the Hungarians receive hospital help).
This would culminate in the famous battle of Las Navas de Tolosa, one of the most important in Spanish history, where the charge of the 3 kings (Castilians, Aragonese and Navarrese) together with Templars, Hospitallers and the order of Santiago and Calatrava defeated the the Almohads leaving free the next conquest of Andalusia.

Interesting links:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/espanaf...peninsula/amp/

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temp...de_Arag%C3%B3n

https://miravet.info/rutadeltemple/p...den/aragon.htm

Crown of Castille and Leon

https://memoriadelaraduey.blog/2017/...stilla-y-leon/

[j.a.luna]

1 yes
2 there're already sergeants in the Chapter buildings, so they will be there
3 perhaps not, but we'll see
4 as for now, they're related to the historical events. but they may be coded in the EB2 way, we'll see
5 there's the dissolution script already in the mod, as it was in the base Stainless Steel

"Chapter Houses - instead of 4 different 2-level building chain there'll be one 4-level "Military Orders" building chain (what will result in less congestion in the cities hosting 4 different orders. Everything re-coded (in script, EDB, EDA, EDCT). Phasing in various orders coded. The Templar-destroyed removed."


Hi Jurand watching the new advances for the next version I saw this regarding the military orders...

1. So there will no longer be a historical dissolution of the Templars?


2. Since there are 4 levels of chapter houses, I understand that there will be a maximum level for each of the 4 current orders in the game, like a "House of the Grand Master" and only one available for each military order in the game...


3. Will there be unique buildings like the Krak des chevaliers for some military orders?


4. Could you provide pictures of your Hanseatic League style building for better understanding of new system of chapter houses?


5. You said before that in the same settlement there could be Teutonics, Hospitallers and Templars at the same time, does that continue like this?

6. As a note for the kingdom of Jerusalem and the Templars, remember that the Turcopoles troops (currently in the game represented by Turcopoles archers and Turcopoles horse archers) were used only in the Levant and the Holy Land, they should be auxiliary troops of the Christians recruitable in those areas ( not in Persia or Arabia as mercenaries how they are currently in the game)

[Jurand of Cracow]

Modifications for the Military Orders:
- all 4 buildings fused into one building (with 4 levels). New icons introduced, effects re-coded etc. It will be buildable by all Christian factions in specific places dictated by the hidden resources (no change here). The timing when a faction is able to build them is defined in a special script, based on historical events.
- recruitment of all military orders' units (knights, foot knights, seargents ect.) transferred to that building.
- recruitement made dependent on the historical events, in general: the units will be available later in the game (at the beginning only KoJ can recruit only the Templars, then gradually Hospitallers, Santiago and lastly Teutonics are phased in - more or less as it is currently). Overall, the supply of units will be lower.
- no change to the units in other aspects.
- the "Templar Destroyed" mechanism disabled - it should be the outcome of the game (the chapters are getting too big income away from the player), not just deux-ex-machina mechanism.
- the unique buildings (Crac des Chevaliers? Marienburg? Calatrava Vieja? Temple of Salomon?) are to be created in the future.






@j.a.luna:
ad. 1 - yes, it's deleted.
ad. 2 - should be like this, but will have to be coded like this, for the moment the highest level is only for Huge Cities (like Venice? Paris?)
ad. 3 - it's in the plans, yes.
ad. 4 - there's no such intricate system, no need for such graph. Just a building in places allowed by the hidden resources.
ad. 5 - yes. Venice and Jerusalem are good examples, iirc.
ad. 6 - for the moment, the Turcs Poulains stay as they are, but imo should be remade indeed in the style you propose.

[Napovanni]

I see Crac de Chevaliers which was indeed in the region of Tripoli. But what about the Castle Kerak itself which was in the Jordan Region, South East of Jerusalem?

[Jurand of Cracow]

I see Crac de Chevaliers which was indeed in the region of Tripoli. But what about the Castle Kerak itself which was in the Jordan Region, South East of Jerusalem?

As dozens (or hundreds) of the other important castles from the Middle Ages, it is not singled out. This is due to the scale of the game.

[j.a.luna]

@Jurand and kostic, i have been in Caceres recently and i have found interesting documents and information about Santiago orders .
The origin of this famous Spanish order was in Cáceres, I leave you the link below, I think it would also be correct and historical to change the icon of the Order of Santiago for what it was historically since the current emblem dates from more than the 16th century onwards I leave you historical images too:
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fratres_de_C%C3%A1ceres
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orden_de_Santiago

Maybe @kostic can design new unit models for Santiago order, and if is possible also Sergeants order

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

. Attachment 368918Attachment 368919

Hi kostic, here i leave here an interesting link about Santiago order and their symbols and banners, for when you have time you can modify them ( with historical banners and unit models, near s.XII-XIII, not s.XVI)

https://magerithistorica.foroactivo....ar-de-santiago

[kostic]

Thank you @j.a.luna for this valuable information about the Order of Santiago. I'll make this unit again as soon as I can!