History and gameplay!
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
1 - yes, only 2 factions only in Italy
2 - no, Venice and Milan have the unique buildings, the rest is for all provinces, even if the description is from Genoa and the pic from Florence
3 - no, from the beginning till level 4, then after Dante is born - the other levels
4 - yes, no connection with the Italian Traders
5 - yes, but my modding is not so planned, I've just spotted a good Palazzo building to make pics out of it.
History and gameplay!
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
ok, so now for some love for the Muslim factions:Originally Posted by j.a.luna
Coding is as follows:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Domesticus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Good job Jurand !
Domesticus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Great Jurand! this is just what i wanted with the muslim factions! (along with seeing silk roads and caravansary also improved in the future), asking why the desert qasr remain religion conversion and also if you would add more Bedouin units here, such as Bedouin infantry and especially since they are desert regions, add the recruitment of camels, we have at At the beginning of the game the Bedouin Camel archer could be added to this building.
what do you think about adding public order also in the lower levels? for example, 1% for Agadir, 2% for Qasr, 4% for desert qalat and 5% or 6% for amir qalat, this would represent the security offered by this building in desert areas where people can take refuge and rest safely.
What do you think?
I'm glad to see more love for the Muslim factions, now it's time to see more work from Kostic and his units!
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Foederatus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Just got my first Hanseatic league buildings in Poland, love the Crossbowmen!
Domesticus
Re: 098 teaser: WONDERS (or unique buildings)
Jurand I want to help you so that you can remodel your next regional building, this time with something more Iberian... bullrings.
Currently in the game it is called "Plaza del toro" and it gives as a benefit 15% benefit for happiness.
-Really and well said, it would be called "Plaza de toros" and its next level could be "Ferias taurinas" that in the Iberian Middle Ages had religious reasons, so I would add a unique one for Pamplona, its famous "Sanfermines". Here are some links with information.
Bullfighting fairs could give in addition to happiness, religious conversion bonus 1%, "Jinetes" could also be recruited here, due to the practice in the middle ages of throwing javelins and spearing bulls from horses.
If you need more information or images I could provide them.
BULLFIGHTING IN MIDDLE AGES
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrida_de_toros
MEDIEVAL IBERIAN "CORRIDAS"
https://torosdelidia.es/la-corrida-medieval/
SAN FERMIN FESTIVAL
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanfermines
this regional building would be available for the 3 iberian factions in everywhere but for the rest of factions only in Iberia and only the first level (Plaza de toros) ,(Sanfermines only in Pamplona)
What do you think? Did you have other ideas in mind about this building?
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History and gameplay!
Re: 098 teaser: WONDERS (or unique buildings)
thanks for the hints, @j.a.luna. I've been indeed looking for the name for another level, so let it be Ferias taurinas. As for the effects, I'm not coding it atm. These days I'm definitely in mood to analyse the desert/Maghrib/Muslim buildings. We've got now three: Slavemarkets, Caravans, and Qasr (plus Alkazar in Maghrib), and they should be somehow logically managed. There're also hidden resources related, and maybe some can be freed for other purposes, if re-coded.
Domesticus
Re: 098 teaser: WONDERS (or unique buildings)
Perfect Jurand! If you need descriptios, texts or ideas for these regional buildings i could help you
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Foederatus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
As a fellow Spaniard, I agree on the name of "Plaza de toros" instead of "Plaza del toro". That being said, I'm not so sure about the idea behind the "Ferias taurinas", and neither am I of the building order. I mean, I wouldn't say there's much need of infrastructure to set up these fairs around the figure of the bull. They also have a clear seasonal connotation. These "Ferias taurinas" are more similar to the "races" and their frequency (daily, monthly or yearly), which you could also very well consider including in this line of buildings.
Regarding Pamplona, I too would like to see something related to the "Sanfermines" there but, same as it happens with the "Ferias taurinas", I'd say it's more of a yearly festivity that is arranged, instead of infrastructure being built with a permanent use in mind.
Leaving Pamplona aside for now, my suggestions:
- Instead of "Ferias taurinas", include "Ruedo" as the first step on that line of buildings. It's the centre of the "Plaza de toros", the "arena" so to say, where the action takes place. I've seen modest bullrings in smaller towns around Spain which barely have that built, and the crowd would gather and sit around on pretty basic and sometimes non-permanent stands. I'd also suggest to allow this first step to be built starting on Large towns, considering there're about 1700 bullrings spreaded out between slightly more than 8000 towns in total all around Spain (1 for every 5 towns). Many of them, in relatively small towns (even less than 1000 pop in some cases). As of how to portray it... Greying out the current "Plaza de toros" picture is always an option I guess. Though if greater work would be possible, stripping off the "building" and leaving only the "arena" with its palisade in the picture would be great.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
- At minor city, or maybe even at Large city, it'd come the "Plaza de toros", as it is right now, though I'd consider increasing the building time, alongside maybe some conversion benefits, because of it being closely tied to the Iberian culture.
- I'm not sure if any step of this line of buildings should be available for castles, same as Racetracks aren't available in them, either. And I'm inclined to say no. Because of that, if something special is to be done for Pamplona, keeping it as a castle might prove to be a problem.
- Also, I might be stepping off the track here, but with the goal in mind of decreasing the amount of buildings displayed and trying to keep it around 24 at most, I'd consider allowing only either Plaza de toros or Racetracks line of buildings to be built in the same settlement, but not both. As of to destroy the Racetracks line of building upon conquest (same as it happens with religious buildings), I'm not sure either. I'm not an expert on this field, but I don't think there's that great of a racetracking tradition in Spain. At least, way less so than of bullfighting, that much is certain.
- Lastly, in regards to "Ferias taurinas" and the "Sanfermines", until we come up with a better idea to fit the latter in Pamplona, I'd stick with the former just to portray the frequency of the event being held, though "corridas" would work for that, too.
Last edited by Dhoule; October 25, 2022 at 01:43 PM.
Domesticus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Hola Dhoule! No sabía que tenía aquí otro compatriota! Me alegro por ello!
yes, as my compatriot Dhoule has said, I also like your idea of adding a more basic level and in small cities called "Ruedo" or perhaps "Ruedo taurino/Ruedo ibérico" with bonuses in people's happiness, later add "Plaza de toros" in cities (later town from now on for example) and finally one or 2 levels maximum to study... As a unique part if I would add Pamplona in some way for its "Sanfermines" famous all over the world and with medieval origins...
Ferias taurinas could be a third level representing these famous medieval fairs and perhaps a last level called " Real Plaza de Toros " simulating a bullring where nobles and kings would go to see the bulls, an idea to simulate a maximum level in the style of the sultan racetracks...
In addition, religious conversion bonus would be added for its religious character as well and perhaps recruit units of "Jinetes" as I said before.
It is something that you have to value Jurand.
Last edited by j.a.luna; October 25, 2022 at 12:00 PM.
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History and gameplay!
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Thanks, Guys, I'll take into account once I get to mode the plaza. Indeed, I need to reconcile it with the Horse races building somehow.
Besides, dear Spaniard, maybe you'd together help me with something else - the texts for the rebellions in the Spanish provinces. I need texts similar to that of Brittany (the first sentence will be the same, I presume):
the code of the rebellions with be quite similar to this one:{SETTLEMENT_REBELLION_RENNES_NORMAL_BODY}\nMylord! The Bretons are unhappy with our rule! They have taken up arms and set up an army to challenge us! Let us fight!\n\nThe population of the Duchy of Brittany that existed in the High and Late Middle Ages was built upon the tradition of the Gallic tribes that had occupied the Armorican peninsula during the Roman times, and the Britonnic tribes who migrated here in the Early Middle Ages from Britain, blending with the local people to form the later Britons, who eventually became the Bretons. Brittany was then fragmented into small, warring regna, kingdoms, each competing for resources. Only in the 10th century, the Duchy of Brittany was formed. Over the course of the centuries, a feudal society emerged, with laws and customs run through a hierarchy of Breton lords, from the numerous holders of local castles to the handful of counts and the Duke in the urban centers. The aristocracy in Breton was conservative and tenacious in their outlook but heavily influenced by French society and culture, which sometimes produced tensions with older, more local traditions and customs.
{SETTLEMENT_REBELLION_RENNES_NORMAL_TITLE}Rebellion in Brittany!
log --- (.G.) Rennes Province Rebellions ----------------------------------------
if I_EventCounter is_the_player == 1
and I_EventCounter FL_is_crowned_ruler < 1 ; benefits of being crowned
and I_EventCounter faction_size_small == 0 ; to make the life of small factions easier
and RandomPercent < 50 ; some randomness is always good
and I_EventCounter DifficultyLevel > 2 ; only for H/VH difficulties
and I_EventCounter Rennes_turns_in_our_realm > 47 ; rebellion of the first generation living under a new hoof
and I_EventCounter Rennes_turns_in_our_realm < 57
add_events
event SETTLEMENT_REBELLION_RENNES_NORMAL
date 0
position 64, 188
end_add_events
console_command add_population Rennes -300 ; those who rebelled
set_event_counter Rennes_turns_in_our_realm 60 ; the most unhappy people left to the army so the average in the population left has increased
; the role is also to prevent chain of rebellions, see conditions above
spawn_army
faction slave, sub_faction france
character Yves, named character, age 32, x 64, y 188
traits CounterOfBattles 3, NaturalMilitarySkill 3 , GoodCommander 3 , StrategyDread 1 , Bloodthirsty 2 , Brave 4 , Xenophobia 3
unit NE Bodyguard exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit Breton Light Cavalry exp 7 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit Breton Light Cavalry exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit Breton Light Cavalry exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit Axe Militia exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit Axe Militia exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit Spear Militia exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit Spear Militia exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit Hunters exp 7 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit Hunters exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
end
end_if
Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; October 25, 2022 at 12:44 PM.
Foederatus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
¡Buenas! Diría lo mismo de ti, de no ser porque la firma te delata
When I search on google "Ruedo taurino" or "Ruedo ibérico", there're hardly any results worth mentioning. Honestly, I'd stick with just "Ruedo", there's no need to specify any more, because it's already pretty characteristic of the bullring's vocabulary. The only thing I'm not too happy with is that it's also very "Spanish" sounding. I've searched for it, and it seems "Ruedo" is regarded as "Arena" at least in Portuguese. Same thing could be said about the "Plaza de toros", though. I don't know if different names could be used depending on the faction (maybe a bit too much of a headache), but that'd be ideal.
I think two levels for the bullrings is fine. A third one could work for Pamplona, if anything (though I'm still not keen on simply calling it "Sanfermines" and be done with it). Four are definitely way too many. Most of these kind of regional buildings offer just two levels. Also, AFAIK, we have very little evidence of lasting bullrings. It doesn't mean bullfighting wasn't a thing, or that bullrings weren't being built. They were, but apparently not really to last. The oldest bullrings still present are from early XVIII century, and that's centuries after the ending of the period the mod tries to cover. Also, I spoke about hundreds of bullrings in Spain, but I'm aware most of them must be from the XIX and XX centuries, when building them was very likely not nearly as costly as it was in medieval ages. Some roman amphitheaters were (and some still are, such as Nimes) used to host bullfights, but it's not as if they were built for that sole purpose back then, or in medieval ages either.
And now that we're at it, I'd consider allowing construction of the bullrings line of buildings in Southern France. At least, in the settlements of Bordeaux, Toulouse and Arles. Not so sure about Nice. There's a long lasting bullfighting tradition in these regions (though maybe not so much in those three cities nowadays).
These are just ideas, though. It's up to the mod developers to decide what to do and include. In any case, I'd be happy with just seeing a bit more focus on the bullrings and, by extension, on the Iberian factions.
Last edited by Dhoule; October 25, 2022 at 02:49 PM.
Domesticus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Ok Jurand I will gladly get down to it and whatever you need and even more so if it is for my beloved country and my Iberian Peninsula, but for which Spanish regions do you need it? I mean if they will be texts for all of Iberia or for some specific regions of Iberia (also including Aragonese and Portuguese and Moors)
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Domesticus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Jajajaj mi firma es muy épica XD! Me tienes que decir de que parte de nuestro país eres, quizas estemos mas cerca de los que nos creemos jeje. Y por cierto vamos a unir fuerzas para echar una mano a los modders en mejorar el mod, te parece?¡Buenas! Diría lo mismo de ti, de no ser porque la firma te delata
When I search on google "Ruedo taurino" or "Ruedo ibérico", there're hardly any results worth mentioning. Honestly, I'd stick with just "Ruedo", there's no need to specify any more, because it's already pretty characteristic of the bullring's vocabulary. The only thing I'm not too happy with is that it's also very "Spanish" sounding. I've searched for it, and it seems "Ruedo" is regarded as "Arena" at least in Portuguese. Same thing could be said about the "Plaza de toros", though. I don't know if different names could be used depending on the faction (maybe a bit too much of a headache), but that'd be ideal.
I think two levels for the bullrings is fine. A third one could work for Pamplona, if anything (though I'm still not keen on simply calling it "Sanfermines" and be done with it). Four are definitely way too many. Most of these kind of regional buildings offer just two levels. Also, AFAIK, we have very little evidence of lasting bullrings. It doesn't mean bullfighting wasn't a thing, or that bullrings weren't being built. They were, but apparently not really to last. The oldest bullrings still present are from early XVIII century, and that's centuries after the ending of the period the mod tries to cover. Also, I spoke about hundreds of bullrings in Spain, but I'm aware most of them must be from the XIX and XX centuries, when building them was very likely not nearly as costly as it was in medieval ages. Some roman amphitheaters were (and some still are, such as Nimes) used to host bullfights, but it's not as if they were built for that sole purpose back then, or in medieval ages either.
And now that we're at it, I'd consider allowing construction of the bullrings line of buildings in Southern France. At least, in the settlements of Bordeaux, Toulouse and Arles. Not so sure about Nice. There's a long lasting bullfighting tradition in these regions (though maybe not so much in those three cities nowadays).
These are just ideas, though. It's up to the mod developers to decide what to do and include. In any case, I'd be happy with just seeing a bit more focus on the bullrings and, by extension, on the Iberian factions.
Ok "Ruedo" could simply be fine for a first level of this regional building, and I also agree to extend it to the south of France as you say, I know first hand that cities like Bordeaux are very bullfighting with a lot of tradition so it would be logical also add them to this.
As benefits which do you think would be correct? I think that happiness for the entertainment of the masses, religious conversion because many times they were framed in Christian religious festivities and perhaps it would add income, in addition to adding the unit to recruit "Jinetes" for the explanation I gave earlier of the practices with spears
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History and gameplay!
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
The texts are needed for all Iberian regions, names are listed at the bottom of this pic:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Foederatus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Del País Vasco. Y yo encantado de echar una mano con lo que pueda, aunque tampoco me quiero comprometer mucho. Todo granito de arena ayuda, eso seguro.
In regards to the benefits... I guess it depends on how many building levels they decide to go with. If they stick to two, and it was up to me, I think something like this could be fine:
- Ruedo:
--- Large town
--- 2 turns (it shouldn't take much time to build that, and it's the same as Racetracks' first level, so...)
--- Cost to construct: 3000
--- Requires: Carpenters' Workshops and Landowners' Guards built in the settlement
--- Provides:
----- Allows ferias taurinas/corridas to be held
----- Religious conversion 1%
----- Public order due to happiness: 10%
----- Income (+) or upkeep (+-) of the establishment: +- 100
- Plaza de toros:
--- Large city
--- 6 turns (maybe 4? it's what the second level of Racetracks takes)
--- Cost to construct: 6000
--- Requires: Stonemasons and Local Nobility built in the settlement
--- Provides:
----- Allows ferias taurinas/corridas to be held
----- Increase in tradeable goods (the lowest bonus income, not sure how that works)
----- Religious conversion 2%
----- Public order due to law: -5%
----- Public order due to happiness: 20%
----- Income (+) or upkeep (+-) of the establishment: +- 200
--- Enables training of:
----- Jinetes (Max available: 1) (Experience: 1) (very low replenishment, though it could be used to give some experience to those Jinetes units that still don't have it).
Truth be told, I think most of this comes more from wishful thinking (with a hint patriotism and balance pursuit, I guess), than of a proper research of whether any of this is actually and factually historically accurate, at least to the extent SSHIP I think intends to go. Honestly, I'm not sure if bullrings should even be there as a formal building. At least, from the get go. And if not then, when should they be available? Again, I don't know.
Domesticus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Del Pais Vasco?? Estuve por tu tierra hace tiempo... Por Getxo, Santurce, Bilbao, San Sebastián... Yo soy de Andalucía, juntos creo que podemos mejorar la parte ibérica del mod.
Being Basque, what do you think about the current "basque archers", are they historical? do you think they should be mountaineers or navigators whose unit was more versatile in the game? I think there should also be an AOR unit in the northern areas of Iberia (Pamplona and Burgos)
On the other hand, if you want, we can divide the work on creating the descriptions that Jurand asks of us and that's how we finish before, when I have time I'll start doing them.
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Foederatus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Honestly, I'm just happy there's a Basque unit in the game, if anything. I'm not aware of unique or famous military units from that region in that age. I like history, but that's all, I'm no expertise. That being said, I'd have expected a unit more oriented to ambush, instead of a long-range unit, capable of holding the line in melee.
Also, I could see the mountaineer reference, though I'm not sure in which way. There're benefits in battle from having the high ground, but I'm not sure if that'd be the way, and if it's even possible to mess with it. There're probably better regions suit for that, such as the ones around the Alps. The navigators... Definitely not. I could see it maybe in some Late Middle Ages or Renaissance setting, but not in High Middle Ages, when San Sebastian, most likely the most important port around the area, was barely there, and the Basque sailors hadn't made a name for themselves yet.
In regards to the last part... I may give it some thought and see if I can come up with something. Though, AFAIK, the titles and the descriptions already exist, don't they? Or is it that the current ones are wrong?
Domesticus
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
Ok about basque units, but also think that they should not be an archer unit...maybe have javelins and little axes with little swords simulating a guerrilla unit...also i know that in Bellum Crucis mod there are two units for north Spain, lne for basques simulating a guerrila unit and another for navarrese, as Navarrese infantry and heavy infantry with armor, shield and axes/swords ( with heraldry of medieval Navarra, so we could also have a unit to represent the Kingdom of Navarra in Iberia)
On the other hand, ask JURAND about the Norman stronghold, the English were also Norman, would it be possible to add this regional building for them? Since the Normans built numerous castles/forts throughout the British Isles to control the Welsh, Irish, Scottish... unless they had the first 2 levels or maybe you want to create other regional buildings for them??
It would also give them access to foot and mounted Norman knights (I think they only have mounted ones), They could also be an AOR unit in England and Normandy only.
Opinions???
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History and gameplay!
Re: 098 teaser: REGIONAL BUILDINGS by JoC
After having gotten more experience, I've come to the conclusion that the previous building for desert should be modified, so instead of this:
there'll be another building called Oasis:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
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