Vassals in the SSHIP

[pepa007]

Vassals in the SSHIP

Let's gather here material and thoughts of how to approach the Vassal mechanics in the Medieval 2 engine and in the SSHIP.

[XinoFumeiro]

Hello, amazing mod.

Quick question, I could not find the answer anywhere in the forum. Do provinces controlled by your protectorate/s count as own by you in terms of obtaining the crown? Thanks.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hello, amazing mod.
Quick question, I could not find the answer anywhere in the forum. Do provinces controlled by your protectorate/s count as own by you in terms of obtaining the crown? Thanks.

No, the vasals do not count against the crown requirements.
Frankly speaking, I haven't had vassals in the SSHIP, I thought this is a broken mechanics in the Med2 engine. I don't think mods like EBII use this mechanics...

[FlavioGalerio]

Frankly speaking, I haven't had vassals in the SSHIP, I thought this is a broken mechanics in the Med2 engine. I don't think mods like EBII use this mechanics...

It works in Bellum Crucis.

[Jurand of Cracow]

It works in Bellum Crucis.

The question is: how does it work. I've played BC a few times, and while many facets were great, I was not happy with particularly the AI and diplomacy of that mod: 30 turns of lull and then everybody is attacking you. Then the behavious of the AI for the next turns was strange, iirc. The AI money varied in a stange way. It was unplayable even for a person with love to the BGR.
What I've heared from the EBII guys, is that the vassals were a way to drain money out of thin (the vassals) air by the player and the AI stronger factions what actually ruined both the whole anti-excessive-money mechanism and the anti-AI-debt script present in the EBII (in the SSHIP we also have such mechanisms), so they were disabled. I don't know how it was made in the SSHIP (it was done before I got onboard), but I haven't seen them in game so I'd expect to be disabled as well.

[j.a.luna]

The question is: how does it work. I've played BC a few times, and while many facets were great, I was not happy with particularly the AI and diplomacy of that mod: 30 turns of lull and then everybody is attacking you. Then the behavious of the AI for the next turns was strange, iirc. The AI money varied in a stange way. It was unplayable even for a person with love to the BGR.
What I've heared from the EBII guys, is that the vassals were a way to drain money out of thin (the vassals) air by the player and the AI stronger factions what actually ruined both the whole anti-excessive-money mechanism and the anti-AI-debt script present in the EBII (in the SSHIP we also have such mechanisms), so they were disabled. I don't know how it was made in the SSHIP (it was done before I got onboard), but I haven't seen them in game so I'd expect to be disabled as well.

@Jurand, as for the vassals, an explanatory text should be made in the game about how they work and how it can be made possible, for example, is it when the enemy has 1 or 2 settlements left and you don't have abysmal relations?

-On the other hand, if you don't want the vassals to give money to the winner and take away the loser as you have explained, another form of compensation would be the military way, for example via script, that the player or the faction that is more powerful against the vassal is rewarded with some military units from time to time (as a tribute with people from the subjected country) and if possible with units of that faction if possible...
Example: The Byzantine Empire subjugates (powerful faction) the Hungarian kingdom (vassal and subject faction), the Byzantines receive every 10 turns (5 years) Hungarian reinforcement troops, for example an army made up of 6-7 Hungarian units, that is, units regional and typical of the submitted faction (magyar cavalry, saxons, pavise spearmen, crossbowmen, vlach axemen, knights). This simulating the military aid of your vassal, in return the ability to recruit military units of the subjugated faction is drastically reduced in your slots and pools.
This could be for the player only or also for the AI and the player, depending on how you see it and it is not very complicated to do it.

[Macaras]

The question is: how does it work. I've played BC a few times, and while many facets were great, I was not happy with particularly the AI and diplomacy of that mod: 30 turns of lull and then everybody is attacking you. Then the behavious of the AI for the next turns was strange, iirc. The AI money varied in a stange way. It was unplayable even for a person with love to the BGR.
What I've heared from the EBII guys, is that the vassals were a way to drain money out of thin (the vassals) air by the player and the AI stronger factions what actually ruined both the whole anti-excessive-money mechanism and the anti-AI-debt script present in the EBII (in the SSHIP we also have such mechanisms), so they were disabled. I don't know how it was made in the SSHIP (it was done before I got onboard), but I haven't seen them in game so I'd expect to be disabled as well.

As much as I read and noticed, the main problem with the vassals is that they are passive, they cannot attack anybody, and I think no AI modification can go beyond it.. We have sometimes vassals, for example Moors or Byzantines subjugate their neighbors, and it works in a sense as a life saver for the small factions. They behave like allies, but cannot make decision on their own whom to attacks. The good thing is that they make alliances with others and then when their protector start war with other factions the vassalage breaks as the vassal chooses to to keep alliance with their protector new enemy. Or sometimes they just attack one another..So the vassals are not forever, they come and go and add some flavor to the game I think, and help to keep the map more stable.
Regarding the money I never learned for sure how much the vassals pay or if even pays something. If I remember well they are supposed to give half of the income to their protector but I remember long time ago I made some factions my vassals and I didn't notice any extra money coming from it. Maybe EBII guys are right, I just hope that our vassals benefit more from being vassals then loose, in the sense that AI offers protection only if the balance of strength is like 4:1 and the small faction has few settlements.. Usually the alternative is a demise. And I think it never lasts longer than few dozen turns and sooner or later they split.

[eyelurker]

So i dabble around with vassal and decide to vassalize Almoravid as Abbasid because they betray me and why not? I also seen someone making a ridicilous ammount of tribute from vassal and i thought, well it's not like i conquer Andalusia anyway.

I am dissapointed to find out their tribute are ranging from non existant to smaller than expected. Since i pay 30.000 up front and 30.000 tribute for 10 turns to secure this vassalage, i'd say it's a bad investment.

[MoorsihSultan]

hey JoC , when im playing with rum faction and after get in war with mongols after golden horde invasion , is it possible to make mongols send their ministers demanding me to be their vassal?

[Jurand of Cracow]

hey JoC , when im playing with rum faction and after get in war with mongols after golden horde invasion , is it possible to make mongols send their ministers demanding me to be their vassal?

it's possible they'd send such envoys, but how likely - I don't know.
scripting it - I doubt