Switch to EOP (Engine Overhaul Project) - discussion

**Diglytron** · September 03, 2023, 04:55 AM

I don't really get the sentiment from your point 2. I just installed the mod after almost a decade of not playing medieval 2 total war thus far and while like it overall thus far and also the design philosophy, the one big obvious let down is the lack of provinces on many very obvious places, greatly reducing the realism, making the big map feel empty.

The 4 tier-list of settlements is there for a reason, not every city/castle needs to have big stone walls but now it is. If getting rid of the 200 limitations allows you to add (easily?) like 20 ''minor'' settlements on obvious locations where now you had to remove them to make other places less empty due to the limit, I don't see the problem. Apart from if it of course requires rebuilding the mod completely from skretch in a new engine/point 1.

**King Edward** · September 03, 2023, 02:32 PM

With the direction CA is taking, I do not trust them to make an adequate sequel to M2TW. And if there's a remaster in the works (about which I've heard nothing reliable), I don't necessarily trust that to be as complete or versatile as a member of the community would manage to achieve. Provided the workload is feasible, one of the best M2TW mods can only benefit from better access to game engine mechanics. I'm considering offering an actual bounty to someone who can fix the damn family tree system

Removing limits doesn't necessarily mean they all have to be used and abused to their maximum, I think modding has proven that we all just want options and flexibility to play in our preferred ways!

**Macaras** · September 03, 2023, 03:05 PM

With the direction CA is taking, I do not trust them to make an adequate sequel to M2TW. And if there's a remaster in the works (about which I've heard nothing reliable), I don't necessarily trust that to be as complete or versatile as a member of the community would manage to achieve. Provided the workload is feasible, one of the best M2TW mods can only benefit from better access to game engine mechanics.

I also was searching internet to look for any serious clues that the remaster is coming and nothing, if it is coming it will be in 2025 or later.

I just want to say that I agree with you guys, the lack of limits is a good thing and obviously it may be used for benefit of the mod with a little bit of common sense.. It would be nice to have some parts of the map more historical or to have for example Krak de Chevaliers or some other famous places. Then if there are other reasons to not add any more, we just don't add more because of whatever - ctd's, slowing down, or any other problems, but not because of hardcoded limit.

Also what Belo is saying, it is much better to have a good programming language instead of scripts. Just one feature - num_turn_atwar, would solve so many problems.. Or the fact that we cannot compare two variables: 'if x=y then something'. Instead we have to program like this : if x=1 then something, if x=2 then something, if x=3 then something and so on.. To be able to get out of this is just for the benefit of everybody, players and moders. Also saving time in programing, bug tracing etc. And for my own personal sanity of mind not to have to remind about bugs and logs constantly

..Anyway I hope that one day we will switch to EOP.

**Belovèse** · September 03, 2023, 05:20 PM

All the replies before macaras: don't take it wrong , your opinions are interesting and worth debating, but once again you've missed what eop is about.

Limits are a secondary thing ( and once again it doesn't lift region or faction limits), the center of the subject is: what tool do we use to talk to med2 engine.

**lordgerog** · November 16, 2023, 03:12 AM

One question. Why dont use m2tweops? I think the team behind this modd could improve a lot the modd using it.

**lordgerog** · November 16, 2023, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by lordgerog

One question. Why dont use m2tweops? I think the team behind this modd could improve a lot the modd using it.

Since move my question, and after reading the discussion, it seems... weird. Eops allow even to a total begginer in coding to improve massively their experiences. I mean, you could use the replenishment bodyguard to all the units and set the conditions (like if an army is inside the settlement, in a fort, if is leaded by a general or a captain, even by the type of units checking the edu entries...), make that the recruitment cost population like in rome 1... you only need see the features of the DenMod to understand how amazing tool is Eops. That is the best advance that have the m2tw community in terms of modding in manny, manny years. Why being too... cautious? Another thing is that you assign extremely easily models_strat to the campaign map meanwhile running the game and make custom tiles or change the battlemap in x settlement or tile with all liberty, thanks to that the team of DaC could finally fix the problem with osgiliath. You dont need replicate the fort-cities system of Dinar, but improve even more all the scripts with eops, that will save you a lot of time and you could test it running the game. Cheers.

**Majkl** · November 21, 2023, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by Khevsur

This is all very well, but I think it would be nice if the units and unit icons were done first. This is a really big problem.It spoils the atmosphere

Not here to start an argument or offend you but I have seen you in many different topics speak about Georgia and georgian units , regions, etc. in very "demanding" way. Now I have seen this approach many times before and I understand reasons behind this. I used to behave same in past. But it is very annoying and disrespectful to anyone who is modding to constantly read complaints abut this or that and demanding something to be fixed or improved or complaining that something has not been fixed for years. These people (modding community) are doing it in their free time, often busy lives out of their own will and what you do is detrimental to their work. You could try to learn a bit yourself and perhaps publish a Gerogian minimod or something. That way you will accomplish much more and will make modders experience on forums much more pleasurable. And once again, do not take it personally, I used to be same but then I tried to actually mod something myself and I learned it is very difficult and tedious process and any negative feedback only makes you feel like you quit because why would anyone willingly waste their time only to be critisized. I mean, people are doing it in their free time, at the expense of their friends and family and other hobbies or even work. Peace

**valerius karamanus** · November 24, 2023, 06:44 AM

...the limit of factions allowed in the game is still 31...

Well, that is all I needed to read about this project. Such a pity. If there was one limit absolutely needed to be adressed, it was this. Everything else is nice little immersion improvers.
I'm with Jurand on this one. There is always a chance of CA deciding to let Feral drop a remaster with many improved aspects. Now that there is internal strife in CA and lack of direction in the company, reviving a beloved title to please fans is something they very well could do. Efforts poured into a grand old-engine overhaul would be wasted in that scenario.

**Khevsur** · December 10, 2023, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Majkl

Not here to start an argument or offend you but I have seen you in many different topics speak about Georgia and georgian units , regions, etc. in very "demanding" way. Now I have seen this approach many times before and I understand reasons behind this. I used to behave same in past. But it is very annoying and disrespectful to anyone who is modding to constantly read complaints abut this or that and demanding something to be fixed or improved or complaining that something has not been fixed for years. These people (modding community) are doing it in their free time, often busy lives out of their own will and what you do is detrimental to their work. You could try to learn a bit yourself and perhaps publish a Gerogian minimod or something. That way you will accomplish much more and will make modders experience on forums much more pleasurable. And once again, do not take it personally, I used to be same but then I tried to actually mod something myself and I learned it is very difficult and tedious process and any negative feedback only makes you feel like you quit because why would anyone willingly waste their time only to be critisized. I mean, people are doing it in their free time, at the expense of their friends and family and other hobbies or even work. Peace

Calm down my friend. I am talking openly about desires. Your accusation is offensive. I respect game moderators. I do a lot of things- i draw Textures, i sculpting 3D models. But, I never seen you work here

**Belovèse** · December 10, 2023, 04:36 PM

Well to get back on topic a bit, the v3 that dropped a few days ago is really a big step up. Almost everything that is in the base game has been reversed and added to lua, including conditions we didn't have access previously with vanilla scripts.

For exemple : scripting ai is now possible inside lua (both campaign and battle!)

So for my project of sship+EOP I'm updating to this version, and I think first thing I'll do is remake the finance scroll so it accurately displays all scruped expenses (sieges, campaigning costs, coronation, etc...)

**Macaras** · December 10, 2023, 04:45 PM

I downloaded it, basically copied it to the mod folder, run the EOP exe file and it started smoothly, no problems, no crashes...

**Belovèse** · December 10, 2023, 06:01 PM

You can also get my current work from the EOP branch on git, although I'm still transitioning to the v3 syntax for the scripts.

**Jurand of Cracow** · December 11, 2023, 03:52 AM

ok, so we switch?
I hope you're using our the last git version of the files B-)
Can I upload latest pics etc.?

**Belovèse** · December 11, 2023, 02:22 PM

I'm so glad to hear that, as you imagine

You can work on the main branch as you want, I'm regularly importing the commits to the EOP branch.

I'll clean things up on the EOP side and I'll tell you when it is ready for the team to try!

**Jurand of Cracow** · December 11, 2023, 03:26 PM

this is still the main argument against this move (from 4.00) :

https://youtu.be/Z2XMrFgNf1I?t=246

**Belovèse** · December 12, 2023, 12:05 AM

Well our discussion about EOP has been going on for years now and we still haven't heard an official announcement about med3 or med2 remastered... And it might not be what we expect too.

Also I just though: EOP is using lua, newer titles are using lua for modding also, so actually moving to EOP would be a first step to port our code to another total war game

**Napovanni** · April 05, 2024, 08:49 AM

Hi Belovese and Jurand.

Any update on this whole integration of EOP on the SSHIP mod?

Is this something planned for the new version of SSHIP?

Happy to hear more about it as I love everything you guys are working on.

**Jurand of Cracow** · April 06, 2024, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by Napovanni

Hi Belovese and Jurand.
Any update on this whole integration of EOP on the SSHIP mod?
Is this something planned for the new version of SSHIP?
Happy to hear more about it as I love everything you guys are working on.

I'd say: not in the foreseeble future.