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    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    It's amusing that you think...
    You said, "I posted several polls indicating that a relatively small minority of Israeli Arabs identify as Palestinian", and I replied it was never a small minority.
    How could you be right, if a few months ago, only 48% "felt" part of the State of Israel? And if that number has increased more recently, it's because of the fear of (ongoing) reprisals/repression by the state /Jews of Israel. (1)
    As Jozam rightly wrote, "they're just trying to survive and make the best out of a bad situation". And, by the way, talking about the "frequency of beliefs at a population level" ( they are wary, weary and afraid, says the NYTimes) and look at the curriculum, as I've shown, of the Israeli-Palestinian MPs in the Knesset. What a “coincidence”, isn’t it?

    (1) Palestinian Citizens of Israel Are Wary, Weary and Afraid-New York Times
    Excerpts,

    And Ms. Shehada, a Palestinian citizen of Israel, is afraid, to put it mildly, of what may come now… In Lod, which lies just south of Tel Aviv, Jews and Arabs often live in the same building, she said, but now Arabs are reluctant to go into the air-raid shelters. “They say they see hate in the eyes of the Jews,” Ms. Shehada said.

    Arab citizens of Israel,many of whom want to be identified as Palestinians, make up some 18 percent of the population. They have been caught for years between their loyalty to the state and their desire for an end to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands, the creation of an independent Palestine and a better life for themselves.

    …The police presence has been increased in and around East Jerusalem, and Mr. Muna himself has been stopped twice for checks in the past five days, always moments that can produce friction. “Being past 40 helps you keep your cool,” he said.
    Are Palestinians in Israel in a bind? He paused, then said, “We are always in between.”

    In May 2021, during another Israeli-Palestinian crisis, Lod was wracked by riots and mutual hatred between Jewish and Muslim communities. Ms. Shehada, 40, says she was attacked in her own home by Jews throwing rocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    How noble of you to take up the white man's burden and tell these poor ignorant savages who they really are.
    Read above- and read below.
    They know what they are: second-class Palestinian citizens living in a racist state. By the way, even during Portuguese colonialism, Indian doctors and teachers working in Portugal and the other colonies had perhaps even more rights than Israeli Palestinian citizens. What I doubt is that they felt truly Portuguese.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    facts are that the whole area has had lots of different ethnic and religious groups moving in and out
    …The Zionist argument!
    Palestinians constitute a national group with political and national rights that must not be ignored.The two national movements, Zionist/Jewish and the Palestinian emerged in the 19th century and early 20th century, respectively. Both were inspired by the European nationalism, particularly the Zionism, and by their religious traditions. Both movements have claimed right over the entire land. But there is a difference: The Zionists recounting doubtful historical rights and promises from the Bible. I quote, from Mission of Israel to the UN in Geneve,

    With the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Jewish independence, l​ost 2,000 years earlier, was renewed.
    And the Palestinians citing historical continuity and religious bonds-as well as their demographic majority, cum the right of self-determination.
    ---

    More on the subject,
    Reflections on Writing the History of Palestinian Identity By ...

    (…) during the British Mandate period, this peasant feeling of distinctness found political expression not in rural areas but in the city, through articles in local newspapers, political discourse, and emerging parties. The different Palestinian newspapers, Al Karmel, Filasteen, and Al Munadi, all without exception, conducted one campaign after another against the Zionist movement and its project in Palestine, demanding that Palestine be maintained for its people as a politically independent entity. Najeeb Nassar, a prominent Palestinian journalist and owner of the Haifa-based Al-Karmel newspaper asked the Arabs of Bilad al Sham (Greater Syria) to support the people of Palestine, whom he called "the Palestinians." Nassar wrote this in his newspaper in 1914: "We, your Palestinian brothers, share with you all your difficulties. So why don't you, at least, feel with us a little the disasters raining on us [. . .] and on our country" (quoted in Muhaftha 1989: 23-24).

    Nassar's text reveals early awareness of Palestinian borders and difference from neighboring people in Greater Syria. This awareness becomes deeper after the Balfour Declaration in 1917 and during the British Mandate period, when it starts to take a political bent. In 1923, for instance, the National Arab party announced in its founding statement that its goal is "preserving Palestine for its people […] and establishing a constitutional government in it" (Muhaftha 1989: 225)… This collective imagining becomes widespread during the Mandate period until 1948… The development of a Palestinian national consciousness, however, did not produce its own nation state, as was the case with Arab neighbors of Palestine. Rather, it went through disruption and discontinuity as a result of the events of 1948, which Palestinians call the Nakba, i.e., the catastrophe. A tragic event on different levels (familial, personal, and national), the Nakba resulted, first, in dismantling the social structure of the larger part of the Palestinian population, who became refugees. Second, it caused the disappearance of urban centers from the lives of most Palestinians remaining in Palestine, who were transformed from city dwellers into groups living on the margins of cities. (...)
    ---
    EDIT-We all know that the Palestinian citizens of Israel have been tolerated for two reasons:
    1- Because it is good propaganda to say that Israel is a multicultural and multiethnic society. (I'm not saying that it doesn't have the potential to be a true multicultural society)
    2- Above all, because they represent only 18% of the population of the Jewish state of Israel, which would no longer be viable if those numbers were to grow substantially. Because - I quote, "the right to exercise national self-determination" in Israel is "unique to the Jewish people."
    For the Israeli Palestinian citizens, the apartheid law was a slap in the face. In doubt, ask the Palestinian members of the Knesset. Ayman Odeh (see a previous post) said that Israel had “passed a law of Jewish supremacy and told us that we will always be second-class citizens.”
    But how come they didn't know that? some people like to be fooled and then pretend to be surprised.

    ---
    Meanwhile in the USA,
    Student Journalists Are Covering Their Own Campuses in in Convulsion. Here's What They Have to Say...

    Ordered by police to leave the scene of a UCLA campus protest after violence broke out, Catherine Hamilton and three colleagues from the Daily Bruin suddenly found themselves surrounded by demonstrators who beat, kicked and sprayed them with a noxious chemical… Hamilton’s attackers wore masks. But she recognized the voice of one as a counter-demonstrator sympathetic to Israel’s cause because of prior reporting when some of them filmed her working and harassed her by name. She checked out of a hospital Wednesday after learning that injuries to her arms and chest were bruises.
    The Columbia-based Pulitzer Prize Board, meeting this weekend to decide on its annual prizes, issued a statement on Thursday recognizing “the tireless efforts of student journalists across our nation’s college campuses, who are covering protests and unrest in the face of great personal and academic risk.”
    At Columbia, whose journalism school is considered one of the country’s finest, Dean Jelani Cobb wrote a memo Wednesday to the population of budding journalists who are his students: “You are a part of history now. Your perseverance during a confusing and challenging moment cannot be understated. You told the stories the global public deserved to hear. You helped the school to meet its mission.”

    Here
    is the board’s full statement:
    “As we gather to consider the nation’s finest and most courageous journalism, the Pulitzer Prize Board would like to recognize the tireless efforts of student journalists across our nation’s college campuses, who are covering protests and unrest in the face of great personal and academic risk. We would also like to acknowledge the extraordinary real-time reporting of student journalists at Columbia University, where the Pulitzer Prizes are housed, as the New York Police Department was called onto campus on Tuesday night. In the spirit of press freedom, these students worked to document a major national news event under difficult and dangerous circumstances and at risk of arrest”.

    -----

    I think many of us had the opportunity to watch it live.
    UCLA chancellor condemns 'instigators' who attacked pro-Palestinian camp on campus

    Los Angeles mayor calls late-night attack by counter-demonstrators ‘abhorrent’ as footage shows people wielding sticks
    Some of the students who were injured at the encampment on Tuesday night described their attackers as pro-Israel or Zionist counter-protesters. Video footage of the violence included some counter-protesters yelling pro-Israel comments as pro-Palestinian protesters tried to fight them off.
    David N Myers, a UCLA professor of Jewish history who watched footage of the late-night violence, said some of the attackers appeared to be carrying Israeli flags and other pro-Israel symbols.
    Footage showed mostly male counter-demonstrators, many of them masked and some apparently older than the students. “I saw women as young as 18 and 19 punched in the face by 25- or 30-year-old men,”…´
    Students described being attacked for hours with projectiles, fireworks and chemical agents.
    A student said he felt comparatively lucky: “I had the ability to go to a hospital last night. Currently in Gaza, there are zero fully functioning hospitals.”
    The Los Angeles Times reported that a group of security guards could be seen observing the clashes, but that they did not intervene.
    while Los Angeles police arrived at the scene at about 1.40am, officers did not immediately break up the two sets of protesters, and the clashes continued for at least an hour,
    “Counter protestors continue fighting in front of police line about 100ft away,” a CalMatters reporter tweeted shortly before 2am.
    “Law enforcement simply stood at the edge of the lawn and refused to budge as we screamed for their help,” students with the UC Divest at UCLA group said in a statement early on Wednesday morning
    Pro-Israel counterprotestors started tearing down @UCLA encampment barriers and screamed "Second nakba!"
    Not until nearly 3am did police take action: “Exactly 1 hour after arriving at UCLA, police move in closer and counter-protesters move away, leaving the encampment alone.” There were “no visible arrests”, CalMatters reported, noting “counter-protesters have left”.
    Watch,
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1785580909795942766

    --

    Columbia's association of university professors call for no-confidence vote against Columbia president Minouche Shafik

    A vote of no confidence is the only way to begin rebuilding our shattered community and re-establishing the University’s core values of free speech, the right to peaceful assembly, and shared governance.”
    ---
    Students at Brown Just Secured a Vote on Divestment. ...
    On April 30, protesters disbanded their encampment when the university pledged to vote on divestment from companies affiliated with Israel. This shows a different way of doing things.
    Barnard College Passes Student Referendum for or Divestment in Vote of 90.99%
    Last edited by Ludicus; May 02, 2024 at 04:54 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

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