Battle Pace

[Dalakh]

Very interesting. I was actually asking myself what are the advantages of the health system over the wounds system. You've convinced me that the health system is better, because it approximates minor wounds that add up.

Even though the release and optimization of Rome 2 was horrendous, even though it intensified the DLC politic and generally dumbed down the campaign map gameplay with hollow limited slot cities, no more on-the-map-ressources, extremely gamey army limits and restrictions... well for all of it's failures Rome 2 generally did a good job with the total war engine on the battle map (after a number of patches).

The most important features are for instance the different missile block chances provided by different shields from the front (and the left). The impact damage caused by cavalry on the charge (cav mass*charge speed) which is independant from charge bonus or attack values, the different mass of different units playing into their bracing (and units in fire at will mode wouldn't get bracing to balance infantry javelins). If you charge a unit from the back they don't benefit from their melee defence (and shield armor ? not sure) and you get an attack bonus. And of course the health system which like you said reflects minor wounds but also somewhat nerfed ranged units.

All of these things are excellent game mechanics that need to be kept, improved and expanded on. Then you have stuff that if just bad or broken like the pikes that are nothing more than a glorified picked fence. In rome 2 if you throw two pike phalanx at each other they just stop a few inchs short and litterally stare at each other. Formation attack is never useful because it reduces your offensive potential while not giving you anything worthwhile. In attila shieldwalls and other static formations just reform at a random angle after an engagement and break you frontline.

To come back to Warhammer I think the health system is perfect for it and I like the fact that you have access to health independantly to the number of men standing . I think it was needed to properly implement monsters and heroes.

PS : I also wonder if your monsters and heroes will magically heal to full health after a battle or if they stay damaged and have to regain health like other units have to replenish men.

[Bobington]

You can just look at the number of dudes left in a unit. Also, no matter the damage system, a cannon to the face is a cannon. In a total war game, it would not make sense to survive a huge barrage.

[Aquila_Mars]

a cannon to the face is a cannon.

#TheBlessingOfTheLady

Bouncing cannon balls like nobodies business.

[Bobington]

#TheBlessingOfTheLady

Bouncing cannon balls like nobodies business.

Until you realize it was an organ gun, and another flaming canon ball pops you like a ballon!

[Aquila_Mars]

Well bouncing even one shot is an achivement on its own right

[Clone1710]

IIRC the VC units (zombies, skeletons etc.) are supposed to be without a morale value, so it's interesting to see how this will turn out.

[Lord Baal]

You can already see how that works on the Med2 CoW mod, their armies have unbreakable morale, meaning you have to mow down each unit to the last man since they won't route on you.

If I recall right they don't fatigue either which paired with the above makes for a really challenging enemy.

They do have skeleton archers and crosbows, as well as the scream skull catapult, mostly because the dev team decided they should and the fantasy Necrons NOT IN SPACE weren't in yet (they are now).

In the old lore at least the VC actually had living humans on their armies, as county troops (archers, spearmen and such) and mercenaries.

[Bobington]

Well bouncing even one shot is an achivement on its own right

Not when your remains have given the earth a new paintjob!

[scoicarius]

The most important features are for instance the different missile block chances provided by different shields from the front (and the left). The impact damage caused by cavalry on the charge (cav mass*charge speed) which is independant from charge bonus or attack values, the different mass of different units playing into their bracing (and units in fire at will mode wouldn't get bracing to balance infantry javelins). If you charge a unit from the back they don't benefit from their melee defence (and shield armor ? not sure) and you get an attack bonus. And of course the health system which like you said reflects minor wounds but also somewhat nerfed ranged units.

I had no idea there was a variable that approximates mass. Nice. The nerfing of the ranged units sounds like a design choice. They could be made more powerful, by increasing their damage, but it seems they want their role to be that of softening enemies up, rather than that of primary damage dealers.

PS : I also wonder if your monsters and heroes will magically heal to full health after a battle or if they stay damaged and have to regain health like other units have to replenish men.

I hope they don't, except in cities or if you have specialized units (in which case I hope healing is not instantaneous, but at a certain rate per turn, and maybe you have to prioritize which units need it most), to give it a kind of attrition feel. This would create a great deal of tension, as you may win a battle, but you're more vulnerable to an immediate counterattack.

[LordInvictus]

If I recall right they don't fatigue either which paired with the above makes for a really challenging enemy.

They did. At most, you could make undead units very hardy, but they will still suffer from fatigue.

[scoicarius]

They did. At most, you could make undead units very hardy, but they will still suffer from fatigue.

I hope undead won't suffer from fatigue, and I hope it will vary dramatically from race to race. That's one good way of differentiating the races.

[The Despondent Mind]

I don't now if it's the case for Warhammer, but scripted battles have always been smaller in TW than custom or normal campaign battles.

There is a lot of people asking for a slower pace, but that discussion has existed for more than a decade already, so I would not keep my hopes too high. We have always relied on mods for that kind of stuff.




It would not only be less painful to play (I don't know about you, but I don't come to TW to feel like a korean Starcraft player), but also the game would benefit from allowing the player to enjoy some of the eye candy without having to pause or slow down the game. In my opinion, with the current design of the battles, all those cool details like the dwarven beards or their engraved helmets are completelly wasted and only useful for screenshots. (That's also why I made the -extremelly unpopular- suggestion to slightly reduce the scale and get the camera closer to the ground to achieve a better Warhammer feeling).

That's why I never understood so much hype and marketing over the next TW tittle, anybody who has ever played a tw game, knows that you literally don't have time for graphics. I almost impossible to play a TW battle effectively and enjoying every single graphical detail. Not to mention that in RTW2 you have to scroll down incredibly close to notice anything really.

[scoicarius]

That's why I never understood so much hype and marketing over the next TW tittle, anybody who has ever played a tw game, knows that you literally don't have time for graphics. I almost impossible to play a TW battle effectively and enjoying every single graphical detail. Not to mention that in RTW2 you have to scroll down incredibly close to notice anything really.

I like to play by pausing the game a lot, so I admire the details all the time. But I realize I'm an exception here.