[Official] Reform requirements - as at 2.3

[Thyra13]

Guys sorry if this has been already answered, but i suppose that autoresolve battles count for the reforms aren't they?
(im playing as Rome and im trying to get access to the Polybian reforms, i had my 4 battles at Cisalpine Gaul and now im starting counting the battles against the Carthaginians..)

[QuintusSertorius]

No they don't, auto-resolved battles don't count for any number-of-battles trigger. You have to fight them on the battle map.

[Rad]

That is going to be a hard, there's barely 5 stacks in existence and most of them are in cities..

Be patient, don't jump into a war. The AI gets a scary number of troops after a while.

[Raffula]

Parallel to all this, Hayastan starts as a tribute-paying satrapy of the seleukids, like Baktria, and has an independance event much like Baktria. In fact it is so much like Baktria's that I can just copy paste it :
Arche Seleukia will demand a tribute of 3000 every winter. Refusing it will lead to war between Hayastan and Arche Seleukia. Winning at least 6 land battles and capturing at least 3 regions from Seleukia will make Hayastan a kingdom, ending the war.
Note that an event will fire after 6 battles won and 2 settlements taken, where Hayastan can be forgiven and become a satrapy again, allied with Arche Seleukia (and paying tributes again, I would assume).

Something don't work in my campaign or in this requirement..
note that before starting this hayastan campaign i have re-installed eb2 on a fresh version of m2tw, and the campaign got more less ctd and problems rather my precedent experience..

I've started the script refusing to pay AS, after years of war, and 2 city captured, AS send the message for forgivness, every turn, and i refused every turn...

so the 6 battles triger it's been reched

Now i conquered 4 AS city, but the indipendence scrip tstill don't come...

Is possible the existence of another trigger? or maybe the six battle required for the indipendence must be 6 huge land battle (over 1000 man leaded by fm, no defence, no siege etc)..
because i'm not sure to haved fought all the big battle against FM leaded army

[Tactics Mayers]

What are the cities I need in order for the Pahlava to fully settle? The reform information in the first page have the old city names.

[QuintusSertorius]

What are the cities I need in order for the Pahlava to fully settle? The reform information in the first page have the old city names.

Asaak, Hekatompylos, Ekbatana and Rhagae are all their current names, I'm not sure what you're saying.

[Tactics Mayers]

Asaak, Hekatompylos, Ekbatana and Rhagae are all their current names, I'm not sure what you're saying.

Ah, forgive me about that. I just needed one more city for the reforms and I mislead myself into thinking it was one of the settlements near Assak.

[Stalfo]

I may be missing it here, but there appears to be a trigger for Celtic Armor upgrades (for the Celtic Factions). I've had it happen in two different campaigns but don't recall seeing any notifications for it. I think it happens somewhere between turn 150 - 300. I've only played up to 500ish turns and have only seen the Bronze Armor upgrade.

Can anyone confirm the time frame for this? Or if there is a second, and if so, what year?

[QuintusSertorius]

The armour upgrades for Celts are triggered by their reforms.

The second one is very late, it'll be post turn 650.

[Porphyrogenita]

Something don't work in my campaign or in this requirement..
note that before starting this hayastan campaign i have re-installed eb2 on a fresh version of m2tw, and the campaign got more less ctd and problems rather my precedent experience..

I've started the script refusing to pay AS, after years of war, and 2 city captured, AS send the message for forgivness, every turn, and i refused every turn...

so the 6 battles triger it's been reched

Now i conquered 4 AS city, but the indipendence scrip tstill don't come...

Is possible the existence of another trigger? or maybe the six battle required for the indipendence must be 6 huge land battle (over 1000 man leaded by fm, no defence, no siege etc)..
because i'm not sure to haved fought all the big battle against FM leaded army

I have the same problem - I have captured 5 cities (not auto resolved) and won ?15 battles (not auto resolved) and get the offer of a return to the fold every turn. I decline every turn but never get the "independence" offer.
Except for the battle against the "Arbela" army however the battles have been against 800-900 enemy. Unsure if this makes any difference. I am also up to my neck in Seleucid assassins.

I tried accepting the "forgiveness" offer - the message recurs the next turn and if you accept it again you get to pay 9K and then the usual 3K/year. You can then use force diplomacy to have the Seleucids repay you the tribute at 750K per turn - giving essentially the same outcome as if you were independent.

I did try using the force diplomacy to make peace with the Seleucids but the script makes them declare war every turn so it was just easier to do the above.

[Genghis Skahn]

Odd, I tested the Hai reforms and got all 3 to trigger before release.

[Porphyrogenita]

Odd, I tested the Hai reforms and got all 3 to trigger before release.

Checking the script:
" monitor_event PostBattle FactionType f_hayasdan
and not I_ConflictType Naval
and not I_ConflictType Siege
and GeneralFoughtFaction f_seleukid
and WonBattle
inc_counter hayasdan_battlewon 1
if I_IsFactionAIControlled f_hayasdan ; terminate monitor if Hayasdan is AI-controlled
terminate_monitor
end_if
if I_CompareCounter hayasdan_battlewon > 5
terminate_monitor
end_if
end_monitor"

So siege battles do not count and "GeneralFoughtFaction f_selukid" presumably means you must defeat Seleucid armies - whether it means that army must have a FM present or not I don't know.
There is however no specified army size.
I'm probably misreading this but it looks like the monitor stops if you win 6 battles - maybe before the independence bit activates.
Regards
P.

[QuintusSertorius]

Yes, they have to be proper field battles to qualify and your armies have to be led by an FM.

The monitor does stop after 6 battles, because it will have done enough to trigger the next part.

[Porphyrogenita]

Yes, they have to be proper field battles to qualify and your armies have to be led by an FM.

The monitor does stop after 6 battles, because it will have done enough to trigger the next part.

And I think that is the problem:
If you have won 6 battles and captured 2 settlements it stops counting.

Lets assume that I'm getting the forgiveness message every turn because it has counted that I have won 6 battles and captured at least 2 settlements. Actually I have captured 5 settlements but it will trigger when I have captured two if I win my 6th battle.
I've then fought another six battles, non siege with at least 2 of my FM in each battle. Same forgiveness message each turn. Two of these additional wins were fought against stacks with 1 or 2 Seleucid FM as well.
I then capture another 2 Seleucid cities. Same old forgiveness message.
Accepting it BTW, leads to the same message turning up next turn - and whether you accept or reject it the second time it goes away and you return to tribute. If you then refuse to pay tribute and revert to war, the forgiveness message immediately pops up and never goes away.
So either there is some other bug, or since it has stopped counting, it no longer records that I have captured any cities in excess of 2....
To make the independence script trigger I think I would have to capture the 3 cities before the 6th battle was won or maybe that is the problem - I captured the 3 cities before winning the 6th battle and it stopped counting cities....

I freely admit these are half-baked theories based on lots of testing but little understanding of the script.
P.

[Porphyrogenita]

Looking further at the script:
if I_EventCounter HE_HAYASDAN_FORGIVEN_accepted = 1
console_command diplomatic_stance f_seleukid f_hayasdan neutral
set_faction_standing f_hayasdan f_seleukid 0.2
set_faction_standing f_seleukid f_hayasdan 0.2
set_event_counter ecHayasdanSatrapy 1
set_event_counter ecHayasdanRebellion 0
set_counter Hayasdan_tributeunpaid 0
set_event_counter HE_HAYASDAN_FORGIVEN_accepted 0
set_event_counter HE_HAYASDAN_FORGIVEN 0
set_event_counter tribute_war_hay 0
set_event_counter HE_HAYASDAN_INDEPENDENCE_WAR 0
end_if
if I_EventCounter HE_PAY_TRIBUTE_TO_SELEUKIDS_declined = 1
set_event_counter HE_PAY_TRIBUTE_TO_SELEUKIDS_declined 0
set_event_counter HE_HAYASDAN_FORGIVEN 0
if I_EventCounter ecHayasdanRebellion = 1
and I_CompareCounter hayasdan_battlewon > 5
and I_CompareCounter hayasdan_regionstaken > 1
historic_event HE_HAYASDAN_KINGDOM factions { f_hayasdan, }
console_command diplomatic_stance f_seleukid f_hayasdan neutral
set_faction_standing f_hayasdan f_seleukid 0.0
set_faction_standing f_seleukid f_hayasdan 0.0
set_event_counter ecHayasdanKingdom 1
set_event_counter ecHayasdanRebellion 0
terminate_monitor"

should this not be "and I_CompareCounter hayasdan_regionstaken > 2"

[Genghis Skahn]

Well if you want only 2 regions to be taken, then it would be >1 yes?

[Porphyrogenita]

What I mean is: isn't this the part of the script that triggers the independence event, which is supposed to occur after you have conquered 3 settlements and won 6 battles etc and declined forgiveness (after winning 6 battles and conquering 2 cities per the previous part of the script). This would seem to indicate that the independence script will trigger at the same time as the forgiveness script because they both are set to trigger when you conquer 2 (>1) cities?

[Genghis Skahn]

Hmmm perhaps it could be.

Sorry you're having trouble with the reforms. I'm almost positive they were working before the last release--though that might not be true now.

[Porphyrogenita]

I had a look at the Baktrian independence event script and I am now pretty sure that the issue for Hayastan is having the triggers for forgiveness and independence the same. I have amended the independence requirement to be cities >2 and will start a new campaign.

[QuintusSertorius]

I had a look at the Baktrian independence event script and I am now pretty sure that the issue for Hayastan is having the triggers for forgiveness and independence the same. I have amended the independence requirement to be cities >2 and will start a new campaign.

The two scripts are broadly the same, so an issue with one will appear in the other.