What the TW teams are working on: when is the next Warhammer game?

[Huberto]

There was a new update on the official forums today to CA's "what the Total War teams are working on."

The update makes it clear that the majority of CA's Total War staff continues to work on the Warhammer sequel, which has been true since the initial game was released in May 2016. Curiously no release date (or date range) has been provided for the sequel. When do folks think it will be announced? There's an EGX Rezzed event in London at the end of March 2017, which might be the moment.

More importantly, given that this points us well into 2017, what's the impact on the production schedule for the next historical TW game? Today's update says that game is still in "pre-production" and that production won't begin in earnest until some time in 2017. Adding to this uncertainty, CA floats an idea for possibly adding some historical content to its existing games prior to release of the next "big" historical game. This suggests that the next release is so far off, they are worried the history crowd will lose interest.

Also I wonder will we even see a new Warhammer game in 2017, given that there's no announcement yet? If the WH sequel is comes out in 2018, roughly two years after the original, does that slam the door on a new historical game until 2019, six years after release of TW: R2?

Everything points to something I never seriously considered before. It's possible six years will elapse between release of the "big" TW historical games, and that we might not see the next "real" TW until 2019??? Is this an unforced error by CA or are they simply following the money? Are they bogged down in a fantasy production quagmire or is this just about making more of what sells best, and that happens to be WH?

Originally Posted by Will CA
Well, Total War was built on a tradition of historical eras, and we’ll continue to do exactly that. Total War: Warhammer is being developed in parallel with our historical titles by a dedicated team.

Was this statement, made on the day TW Warhammer was announced in April 2015, at best misleading?

[Pathfinder]

God knows why or how they'd do a sequel to WH right off the bat. Part of me believes they've been roped into a Age of Sigmar game by GW. Which is of course colossally STUPID, but more so than what can ultimately only be a remake?

I don't really believe that statement on historical settings - they made Arena after-all. They'll go after the broadest appeal they can find - but that will have to include a historical game eventually. Expect Rome I (or Rome II cinematic) Egyptians-style fantasy though.

[General Sultan V]

I think they needed the break from history, historical titles were getting too dull (already 3 titles have sequels), they are running out of new ideas/historical timelines that would appeal people well and sell as much as big names like Rome/Medieval/Napoleon/Shogun would sell.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

CA has announced quite a while back (around when they first announced Warhammer) that there will be two major, standalone expansions to Warhammer (think 2 Fall of the Samurais) as well as representing all official armies + one extra (everybody's pretty convinced that it will be the Chaos Dwarfs).

As for Historical titles, CA has announced that they have an expert in the historical era that they are taking a look at help them progress with what exactly the next historical title will be. They may be working more on Warhammer right now (or at least seems that way), but they have stated several times that they will continue with their historical titles.

So, as of right now, for sure, we have:

Total War: Kingdoms
Total War: Arena (now under another company's development team)
2 Total War: Warhammer standalone expansions AND a representation for all major races (almost certain that they will all be playable)
an unannounced Historical title

[Huberto]

As for Historical titles, CA has announced that they have an expert in the historical era that they are taking a look at help them progress with what exactly the next historical title will be. They may be working more on Warhammer right now (or at least seems that way), but they have stated several times that they will continue with their historical titles.

Right, this is all known. I'm inviting speculation below about when these games will be released.

[FirstItGiveth]

I wonder whether they could make smaller standalones expansions for ATW?

[The Wandering Storyteller]

It's just a shame that they the amount of enthusiasm they gush when talking about warhammer is really disheartening. When you see them talking about historical eras, they seriously have no passion in it. Plus all I want to know is what is the next historical setting??? Just tell us the damn time period!!

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[Chlodwig I.]

I guess if it takes till 2018 for the 2nd Part of Warhammer they will loose to much customers
because they already created some unrest by splitting Warhammer into 3 parts (especially among the fans of the armys not included in Part1)

[Mhaedros]

Since the Wood Elves are probably the last new race expansion for the first Warhammer game, and the second probably has been in development for close to a year, if not more, I'd say the next game will be released sometime in 2017. CA tends to be quite fast with releasing new games (Rome 2 in mid 2013, Attila early 2015, Warhammer early 2016) so a 18 month wait between Warhammer 1 and 2 seems fitting, unless they run into delays. Since the first game is still getting Bretonnia in February (?) I'd assume the second is a few months after that, probably June-August 2017. That makes EGX in March a very good time to announce it, assuming they are going.

Were they even at a tradeshow when they announced Warhammer though? I just remember seeing the artbook tease, and then a couple of months later the trailer dropped.

[Abdülmecid I]

Well, I can't speak for the rest, but I am not surprised by CA's statement, as I always expected, since Warhammer was announced, that no historical game will be released before 2019. An earlier date was simply impossible as simultaneously publishing two games is suicidal, financially speaking. It means that sales will significantly decrease, given that many players will not be willing to buy both games and their DLCs, while the expenses would almost double, due to CA being forced to hire more personnel, for its increased needs. These are simple facts, based on logic and elementary knowledge of management and, therefore, by definition, in my opinion, would produce more reliable estimations than CA's inevitably biased claims.

Was this statement, made on the day TW Warhammer was announced in April 2015, at best misleading?

Yes, it could be viewed as misleading, especially for customers letting themselves be manipulated by wishful thinking. After all, as I had said back then, that quote is intentionally so abstract, that can never be objectively described as a blatant lie. For example, by historical titles and Warhammer he could perfectly mean Rome II (there had been a picture in the official forums, during the hysteria before the 3rd of September, which showed that Warhammer was already in production, back then) or Attila and the last DLCs of Warhammer, respectively.
Anyway, to conclude, the immense success of Warhammer probably means that CA will concentrate a considerable part of its efforts on phantasy content, which personally leave me completely uninterested. Not a big deal for me, as I still enjoy older, modded TW games, but the mass-production of historical games might be slowed down a bit. Perhaps that might lead to an improvement, but given that every game-designer intends to find the most fruitful combination between time/money and quality, I doubt we will notice any important difference. My personal guess is that the next historical game will be released in either late 2019 or even 2020, featuring the Renaissance and the Aztecs as setting and pre-order bribe DLC, respectively.

[Mhaedros]

Your publishing argument doesn't really hold water, since it's not CA that pays for their games, it is SEGA. And two similar games with very different themes can very well be sold the same year (just look at Paradox, Hearts of Iron 4 and Stellaris released within months of each other); I wouldn't expect the next historical game in 2017, but since it's already in development early 2018 wouldn't be impossible if the last Warhammer comes in late 2018. CA already has two different teams working on Warhammer and historical games, and they have a third team making Halo Wars 2. Developing several games at the same time hasn't been a problem for them since Alien Isolation at least.

And guess what? Since they already have the different teams and SEGAs money, they need to get that money back within a reasonable timeframe. There is no reason whatsoever to expect CA to suddenly start on a 4 year development cycle with historical games just because Warhammer has succeeded.

[Frost, colonel]

It's just a shame that they the amount of enthusiasm they gush when talking about warhammer is really disheartening. When you see them talking about historical eras, they seriously have no passion in it. Plus all I want to know is what is the next historical setting??? Just tell us the damn time period!!

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Agreed, I just want to know the period setting!

[Abdülmecid I]

Distinguishing between CA and SEGA is completely pointless. The first is the developper and the second is the producer, but both are essentially the same company. I can't really comment on Hearts of Iron or Stellaris, because I have absolutely no idea what they are, but I still believe that the lack of appeal and the increase of staff will render simultaneous publishing financially self-destrucive. Anyway, early 2018 is an unrealistic expectation, according to CA's latest statements. To sum it up, the largest team of course works in Warhammer, the next historical title is still in pre-production, whatever that might mean, while there's still a long time, until they announce more specific information. Meanwhile, Rome II was published approximately one year and three months before its announcement. Based on that, I would say that the earliest possible date will be late 2018, but based on the aforementioned arguments, I expect it during late 2019. To address your final sentence, innovations occur all the time, even according to your own, considerably more optimist estimation, the next historical game will be released 3 years after Attila and 5 years after Rome II, something that has never happened before.

[Huberto]

One of the things I've learned from their updates is that even while they have separate teams, one game is in production at a time. A majority of staff work on the game that's in production.* What we don't know is how many are working on the game that's in "pre-production," it could be a skeletal crew -- I'm not sure exactly what's involved with this work. The "next big" historical game has been in "pre-production for about two years now. Here's what they said about the historical team early this year:

Since [Attila] was finalised for manufacture at the end of 2014, they’ve primarily been in the early pre-production stages of our next historically-based major release. That involves planning, scheduling and researching the period, art styles and technology we want to put into the game. They’ve recently started prototyping some feature ideas and that will be the next stage of development that will keep them busy for now.

Two years in pre-production seems slow to me. This must be because almost everyone at CA was and continues working on Warhammer. Another possibility could be development of a new engine for TW.

CA usually announces their big games a year out from release, and their sequels 6 months prior. It's possible if they announce the Warhammer sequel in March, it will be released in September 2017. I don't know where the historical game fits in. They wouldn't announce it right after Warhammer or during the pre-order hype period, based on past practice.



*For purposes of this discussion I'm ignoring the part of CA working on the MOBA or the mobile game, as well as the console team developing Halo Wars.

[Ichon]

I am hoping for a new engine for the next historical game or at least major overhaul and I think it is due. For CA to go beyond what Attila did and take advantage of the new equipment available will probably need new engine. I hope they don't go VR just yet (though being a general on the ground in the middle of an ancient battle in VR might be very fun I don't think its possible to well yet or even in 3-4 years time).

Pre-production usually involves deciding the game themes, some artwork concepts, primary features, approximate size of map, budgeting for the teams, testing any new programming code to make sure it can support features, etc- 2 years isn't crazy when several of the people involved probably aren't doing it 100% of their time.

[Hassassins]

According to the game data, there is still 3 factions under making, Kislev, Tomb Kings and Bretonnia. Bretonnia is the next FLC, and according with data, Tomb Kings are the next race DLC. The same picture said the order of Beastmen and WE, so I guess (and I hope, because TK are my favourite faction, and my tabletop army since a child), Tomb Kings will be the next one, and Kislev as FLC in some point (same as Bretonnia).

And If Im correct, CA wants to release a history tittle first, I mean, One historical, then warhammer part 2, then other historical and then Warhammer part 3.

I supose part 2 will be High and Dark elves, plus skavens and Lizzardmen (not sure about skavens to be honest), and the part 3 will be a final chaos invasion, with daemons factions.

Also Estalia, Tilea, Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs need to be release soon, in fact, I hope (at last Estalia and Tilea) will be release for part 1.

I think part 2 will be release at some point in 2018 or 2019.

But we can be sure that WE and Bretonnia arent the last factions in part I. And not just because game data, because they have largers parts of the map uncovered.

[perifanosEllinas]

CA has pretty much made it clear that the next main title in the TW series will be the Warhammer sequel. In an interview for a magazine they also said that the historical title will not be released for at least a couple of years, which means late 2018 in the best case. Of course CA's word now has as much credibility as a cobra, but let's take this logically. The historical title will not get in full production until the Warhammer sequel is released or in the very least ready to be released. Even if they manage to release the Warhammer sequel in 2017 and the historical title gets in full production in the same year, it will be at least 1,5 to 2 years before its release. Which in turn takes us to 2019 or 2020. So, even if they decide to go for the historical title after the Warhammer sequel, it will be released in 2019 to 2020 in the best case scenario (which is that they will have no major delays or any other big problems). But there is always the chance that they might go for the third installment of the Warhammer trilogy instead, which will add another 1,5 to 2 years of waiting for the next historical one and it would take us to 2021 or 2022. That would be a pretty risky move though, as the fans of the historical titles are already losing interest (at least those who still have any left).

And one last thing that I just have to get off my chest: having said all that, and as a TW modder now, I have to say that whatever the setting of the next historical TW title is, if the campaign map is unmoddable I'm not interested.

[Påsan]

Its pretty clear that Warhammer will be the flagship title for the foreseable future. And the historical title will take a backseat probably until warhammer is over with.

As for Warhammer 2 aka Elfxpansion:the game I'd hazard a guess at early summer. The Brets will be released in early february and then we might see Tomb Kings as DLC around april or it might come in the second game. (If I was a betting man, my money would be on the 2nd game given the wood elf was their largest release for WH 1 and the Tomb Kings does not lack in monsters each costing several charlemagnes to animate .)