GOAT and GOAL: A collection of modelling and animation utilities

[Turambar87]

the 3dsmax exporter script has an issue.

In the envelope editor, max arranges the bones by their heirarchy, which puts the weapons immediately after the hands that are holding them. In the converted form, the weapon bones are all at the bottom of the list. However, it only moves the names of the bones, and it leaves the weights as they were before, so when you think you had your sword weighted to bone_weapon_weapon01, it is instead weighted to bone_L_clavicle.

It's correctable by either guessing where the actual bone is going to be and weighting it properly, or by importing an exported model and re-weighting it, but it'd be nice if the script took care of the problem.

Also, materials are handled by materialID, not by which materials are assigned to the model in Max. MaterialID1 is the body, MaterialID2 is the attachments.

[KnightErrant]

@Turambar87,

Don't ever mess with the weapons/shield bones; nothing good will ever come of it.
This was a non-starter for CA for M2TW, it was never fully implemented. It is still
in the .exe but it never works correctly. Weapons for the right hand should only be
assigned to bone_Rhand, same for shields, only to bone_Lhand. Even mentioning
bone_weapon_weapon01 (not an actual bone, but Grumpy's shorthand for a composite
bone) means you are mixing Grumpy's converter with the importer to Max; that's never
going to work. Just take it as a writ of CA law; there are only 20 bones in M2TW that
you can assign to; none of them have weapon or shield in them. As long as you
follow those rules, the bone assignments made in Max SHOULD (I've heard where this doesn't
happen) carry back to the .mesh file.

Technically, here's the deal:
You get 20 bones that define the skeleton. Then in the .mesh file you get 6 six more.
They're called:
bone_weapon
bone_weapon01
bone_weapon02
bone_weapon03
bone_shield01
bone_shield

(May have got them out of order, too lazy to check.) These all have assignment indices after
them in the .mesh file, not all unique. So Grumpy said, "this is silly, I'll just make some names for
these that just use the unique indices". So that's why Grumpy's converter only has three
extra bones: bone_weapon, bone_weapon_weapon01, and bone_shield_weapon, or something like
that. But this is all stuff and nonsense, none of this works correctly so we were drawn off on
a meaningless tangent that doesn't work in game. The converters just stick the 6 weapon/shield
bones back in and (if you don't assign to them) nothing bad happens in game.

If you are making custom skeletons, then all bets are off. Use the utilities provided, they always
move the weapon/shield bones after any new bones added so it still works. Do a search
on Bwian/King Kong/JMRC to find tuts on how to make models with extra bones. This is actually
really fun stuff so I'd encourage any attempts to try things with new bones. To my knowledge,
I've never seen anyone make a unit fly; I'd love to see someone make a Nazgul on a winged
prehistoric steed. Anyone? anyone?

[Turambar87]

All I know is that there's a shield bone and 2 weapon bones when I import a model, and that it works when I assign them.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My problem was that max listed the weapon and shield bone as parented to their respective hand bones, and that made them out of order for the exporter.
If I assign them out of order, then export, then import, everything is in its proper order and I can mess with the bones to check for issues. Unfortunately, to do that, i have to use the import ms3d to get the skeleton in, delete the model (import never works) and then use import geometry only to get the geometry in properly.

I think i got the hang of it though.

I'm definitely not going to be trying to make new skeletons or animations. The max converter for animations only works up to max 9 and I have max 2010 on this computer. Although it would be nice. As it is, when gondor soldiers raise their arms, they will clip through the pauldron. If i could somehow get the pauldron to slide towards the neck and upward and tilt outward at the same time, it would be perfect, but that just doesnt seem to be possible.

[Killerbee]

KE could you take a look at this unit? The utility converts it into MESH just fine, but crashes when converting back to MS3d. I figure my model has something wrong in it, but there are no warning messages to tell me what I should fix. And btw, GOM's converter converts this unit back to MS3d just fine.

I have the exact same problem . is there any known solution ?

Btw, is it normal that i get 3 errors before opening GOAT ? here's one of them :



And i can't download GrumpyOldMan's converter, as there's a trojan in his zip

[Ataegina]

i use this tool alot but about rtw models to ms3d why this don't work with rtw: alexander models ?? i tried convert alexander model (himself) and all i got is error ... how to make it converter models from alex, like this do to vanilla and bi ?

[Killerbee]

i use this tool alot but about rtw models to ms3d why this don't work with rtw: alexander models ?? i tried convert alexander model (himself) and all i got is error ... how to make it converter models from alex, like this do to vanilla and bi ?

Alex models tend to be weird and cause errors . Some of them even aren't open-able with 3dsMax and .Cas importer .

[Killerbee]

Just to inform you :

When you write the path to your folder in goat.ini , always write the path in English, no matter wjhat your language is . For instance, I'ml dutch, and 'Desktop' is 'Bureaublad' in Dutch.

But in goat.ini, you must write Desktop, and not Bureaublad

[Haedar]

Why this tools dosn't work to me? when I tried to convert mesh or use animerge nothing happen and the command screen write like this

any help?

[Eothese]

Try the 1.1 version I gave you the link for to begin with. But my guess is its down to the anim converter, if you've use it.

[Haedar]

Eothese nice to see you again, but I think mine is 1.1.

[Eothese]

In your pic it says _v1_0.py

[Haedar]

Exactly same error, even with the version you provided me with the link, I thought the problim is with python as mine is 2.6.1 so I upgrade to 2.6.4 but also the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nevada]

Hi there!

I created some new animtion families for larger models by exporting the new skeleton using KnightErrant's amazing GOAT and GOAL toolset.
In the descr_skeleton.txt, I copied the entry of the vanilla animation family I scaled up and just edited the names of the main folders properly.
I also sceld up the crew and knifeman animations used in that code.

After starting the game, everything runs properly until the positioning phase. Here, I receive a CTD when using the model with the new animations. This bug is not exactly reproducable, as it happens sometimes at the end of the loading phase, in the positioning phase or in the actual battle.
Or not at all.
The log however stays empty.

Any ideas?

Cheers and thanks,
Nevada

[Aaldgar]

When I try to convert .cas to .ms3d, the DOS window displays a message displaying almost 2 billion for nmesh and enters a non responsive state.

I am running windows 7 x 64 bit, which makes me wonder if this is compatible with windows 7

Is there a way to solve this problem?

Thanks,

Aaldgar

[Haedar]

@Turambar87,

Don't ever mess with the weapons/shield bones; nothing good will ever come of it.
This was a non-starter for CA for M2TW, it was never fully implemented. It is still
in the .exe but it never works correctly. Weapons for the right hand should only be
assigned to bone_Rhand, same for shields, only to bone_Lhand. Even mentioning
bone_weapon_weapon01 (not an actual bone, but Grumpy's shorthand for a composite
bone) means you are mixing Grumpy's converter with the importer to Max; that's never
going to work. Just take it as a writ of CA law; there are only 20 bones in M2TW that
you can assign to; none of them have weapon or shield in them. As long as you
follow those rules, the bone assignments made in Max SHOULD (I've heard where this doesn't
happen) carry back to the .mesh file.

Technically, here's the deal:
You get 20 bones that define the skeleton. Then in the .mesh file you get 6 six more.
They're called:
bone_weapon
bone_weapon01
bone_weapon02
bone_weapon03
bone_shield01
bone_shield

(May have got them out of order, too lazy to check.) These all have assignment indices after
them in the .mesh file, not all unique. So Grumpy said, "this is silly, I'll just make some names for
these that just use the unique indices". So that's why Grumpy's converter only has three
extra bones: bone_weapon, bone_weapon_weapon01, and bone_shield_weapon, or something like
that. But this is all stuff and nonsense, none of this works correctly so we were drawn off on
a meaningless tangent that doesn't work in game. The converters just stick the 6 weapon/shield
bones back in and (if you don't assign to them) nothing bad happens in game.

If you are making custom skeletons, then all bets are off. Use the utilities provided, they always
move the weapon/shield bones after any new bones added so it still works. Do a search
on Bwian/King Kong/JMRC to find tuts on how to make models with extra bones. This is actually
really fun stuff so I'd encourage any attempts to try things with new bones. To my knowledge,
I've never seen anyone make a unit fly; I'd love to see someone make a Nazgul on a winged
prehistoric steed. Anyone? anyone?

Well that explain why I can't re-animate bone_weapon_1 and 2 and bone_shield,.

[Odoaker]

What does an AttributeError tell me? And what is an IndexError? I try to convert a sumerian axe warrior back from ms3d to mesh after UV-Mapping. Before, it worked.

[Yarrum]

I'm trying to use this converter to implement Banzai!'s animated bowstrings and arrows. The problem is that the converter doesn't seem to support skeletons with additional bones. Does anyone know what I need to do to convert non-standard skeletons?

[Nevada]

You can just use GOAT's converter.

It is, actually, the only converter known to me that supports skeletons with additional bones etc.

So, if it doesn't work for you, you must have made an error elsewhere.

[Squeaks]

Hi.

I've altered a horse model, converted through GOAT's mesh converter. When I convert back, UV's messed, although it's fine in Milkshape, and I've used the dds writer tool in GOAT just in case it was that.

Just hoping you can help?

Thank You!!

[kompadre]

KnightErrant

First of all - Thank you for the great set of tools.

I have some questions about GOAT mesh-ms3d converter and maxscript ms3dImportExport_ver1_3.ms.


1. I've tried to convert some mesh to ms3d and got strange result. There wasn't any asignment to the attachment texture in the converted ms3d file. All parts of the model were assigned to the figure texture. But model in the original nonconverted mesh file uses attachment and figure texture - I'm completly sure about that.
1a. In the converted ms3d file I fixed texture assigment thus some certain parts were assigned to figure, the rest - to attachment.
Then I did that - convert fixed ms3d to mesh and afterwards convert this mesh back to ms3d in the new converted ms3d file (I performed this procedure just to be sure that I would work with absolutely normal mesh file, which obtained through out Goat converter from normal ms3d file)
the same mistake has been discovered in the total. All parts of the model were assigned only to the figure texture.

2. In 3ds max I had assigned some vertices to 3 different bones (each of vertex to 3 bones). After converting max-file to ms3d-file (with ms3dImportExport_ver1_3.ms help). In ms3d-file i had seen that mentioned vertices assigned only to 2 different bones. What does it means? Does It means that I can't assign vertex to more than 2 bones?

3. When in milkshape 3d I assign some vertices to 3 different bones and after that, convert ms3d file to mesh with Mesh 2 ms3d beta 0.18 converter - eventually I have mesh-file where mentioned vertices assigned only to 2 bones (3rd bone not assigned). That means Mesh 2 ms3d beta 0.18 can't work with "3 bones assigning" properly. Whether GOAT converter can work with "3 bones assigning"? May be Medieval engine does not support "3 bones assigning" at all?



That's all my questions for now.


P.s.
There is 64698-GOAT_version1_1_bugfixrelease released. But there isn't link to this patch in this thread headline.