Teutonic Order roster "balance issues" and possible fixes

[Melooo182]

Original post by Zeal in Fury in Regional Knights Orders submod thread and my reply

i mean "teutonic faction issuxkiest ever faction in SS"

==
I dunno what other problems might be lying in TO faction (i've never really played with them)
yeah that is point, no one play suxkiest faction - teutonic order in SS
==




Summary

even they no their strong point/Own feature then Crusader state

any SS SUB MOD OR ANYONE NO REPORT THIS FACTION UNREASONABLE PENALTY[THEY GOT EVERY FACTION WEAK POINT]

1.no plate armor unit
2.no good firepower unit
3.no Top strong carvalry unit
4.no Top strong infantry unit
5.no good middle skill unit[purpose for main strength. not best unit]
6.no good starting position
7.no advantge when capture their nerby enemy factions[only west coast is hope]
8.stupid SS team mistake of teutonic order castle techtree
what the two slot of spear millta[IN FUXKING CASTLE] and few prussian/livonian + swordbrethern.........
"ITS REALLY THAT'S ALL"[EVEN LOWER efficiency AND effectiveness then Crusader state !IN EVEN LATE AGE(1400~1500)] and many many other shxts

9.hardcore victory condition[it will fix when if i told thing are fix]


TEUTONIC ORDER ONLY ONE ADVANTGE, THAT IS NEW CHARCTER 'SLIGHTLY' INCREASE HAVE GOOD TREAIT WHEN THEY GET NEW MEMBER[LIKE POPE STATE]

Here a list of TO roster units:
*******************
***City Walls***
Stone Wall city:
Spear Militia dummy
crossbow militia dummy

Large Stone Wall city:
Spear Militia dummy
crossbow Militia dummy

Large stone Wall city:
Spear Militia dummy
crossbow Militia dummy

***Castle Walls***
Castle:
Christ Knights dummy
Halbbruder dummy
Christ Knights
Halbbruder

Fortress:
Christ Knights dummy
Halbbruder dummy
Dismounted Halbbruder dummy
Ritterbruder
Christ Knights
Halbbruder
Dismounted Halbbruder
TO Bodyguard

Citadel:
Christ Knights dummy
Halbbruder dummy
Dismounted Halbbruder dummy
Ritterbruder
Christ Knights
Halbbruder
Dismounted Halbbruder
Dismounted Ritterbruder
TO Bodyguard
TO Late Bodyguard

***Equestrian***
Stable:
Prussian Auxillia

Knights Stable:
Prussian Auxillia
Knechten

Barons Stable:
Prussian Auxillia
Knechten

Earls Stable:
Demi Lancers
Prussian Auxillia
Knechten

Kings Stable:
Demi Lancers
Prussian Auxillia
Knechten

***City Barracks***
Town Watch:
Spear militia

Town Guard:
Order Militia
Spear Militia

City Watch:
crossbow Militia
Arbalest Militia
Order Militia
Spear Militia

Militia Drill Square:
Burgher Pikemen
Order Militia
Halberd Militia
spear Militia
crossbow Militia
Arbalest Militia

Militia Barracks:
Burgher Pikemen
Order Militia
Halberd Militia
spear Militia
Arquebusiers
Hand Gunners
Arbalest Militia
crossbow Militia

Army Barracks:
Pikemen
Burgher Pikemen
Order Militia
Halberd Militia
spear Militia
Portuguese Arquebusiers
Arquebusiers
Hand Gunners
Arbalest Militia
crossbow Militia

Royal Armoury:
Pikemen
Burgher Pikemen
Order Militia
Halberd Militia
spear Militia
Portuguese Arquebusiers
Arquebusiers
Hand Gunners
Arbalest Militia
crossbow Militia

***City Professional***
Military Academy:
Mounted Arquebusiers

***Castle Barracks***
Mustering Hall:
Peasants

Garrison Quarters:
Prussian Axemen
Peasants
spear Militia

Drill Square:
Prussian Infantry
Order Spearmen
Prussian Axemen
Peasants
spear Militia

Barracks:
Sword Brethren
Prussian Infantry
Order Spearmen
Prussian Axemen
Peasants
spear Militia

Armoury:
Halberd MAA
Halberdiers
Sword Brethren
Prussian Infantry
Order Spearmen
Prussian Axemen
Peasants
Spear Militia

***Archery***
Bowyer:
Peasant Archers

Practice Range:
Prussian Archers
Peasant Archers

Archery Range:
Livonian Auxiliaries
Prussian Archers
Peasant Archers

Marksmans Range:
Mounted Crossbowmen
Livonian Auxiliaries
Prussian Archers
Peasant Archers

***City/Castle Siege engines***
Ballista
Catapult
Mangonel
Trebuchet

***City/Castle Cannons***
Bombard
Grand Bombard
Cannon
Basilisk

***Extra***
Merchants/Hanseatic Guild:
Merchant Cavalry Militia

Plus all AOR units
*******************


My ideas for improvement would be:

- Mounted Sergeants, outside hre and prussia AOR
- Light Swordsmen, outside hre and prussia AOR
- Spear Militia, Castle, max pool of 2 outside hre and prussia AOR (this is just so they have some more meatshields)
spear militia in castles is not a bug, as france and hre also have them

Another idea would be also allow them recruit these to keep up the pace in the later eras of full plate armour and subsequent pike & shot:

- Armats, with reduced availability
- Dismounted Armats, with reduced availability

- Reiters, just normal like other west european factions
- Musketeers, just normal like other west european factions
- Late Musketeers, just normal like other west european factions
- Late Pikemen, just normal like other west european factions

Take note that historically by 1525 the Teutonic Order State transformed into the Hereditary Duchy of Prussia and the age of chivalry was gone, so it makes sense they adopt these generic troops.

[ZealAndFury]

REPORT-1
-teutonic order ridicoulous non-resonable penltys in SS -
[almost DLV also same problem]

CHAPTER ONE [TODAY I ONLY WRITE ABOUT RITTERBRUDER]
AND SORRY KONGLISH, GOOGLE TRANSLATION AGAIN[OPS >]

1.UPKEEP AND PRICE-EFFICIENCY
1-1Ritterbruder and dismounted Ritterbruder have upkeep each "800"/"600"

common fudel type knight almost have 400~600upkeep

but only Ritterbruder have 800upkeep[is elepant upkeep?].


So it could be active in the real battle will be featured as a late campaign Ritterbruder?

Absolutely not.

The religious military unit is precisely Ritterbruder. And it has the same stats as the other knights.
This in other words, is that 1200 should not have the highest maintenance costs plus one sense unit type [feudal] and fear aura as having only one among the high damage - usually 13 knights secondary weapon damage] to.

Late appearance and good ability just because more

That is why it is useful in friendly territory Ritterbruder is only defending eseona.

Once in the field, resulting in a disregard per turn Ritterbruder is strictly financial deterioration

It is much more serious dismounted Ritterbruder.

The original SS can be employed to upgrade to the Citadel.

So already you can see when it is time to pass the 1300 campaign, the characteristics emerge TEUTONIC ORDER. And, the employment and moving to find a place to do battle, be exposed to the field eaten away at your finances to maintenance, gives a negligible effect on the entire wire is not until the time of the commitment to practice 1-2 minutes just as the stats also since Templars with a fear aura early-die easily in the middle ages ranged firepower.
Yeah, Gardenia has also resolved to finance part numbers also show a lot of
By the time that comes pouring out of the finest units re talking.

No such example can never win when Paul DISMOUNTED NOBLE KNIGHT X series and combat units when they come pouring out of the public of various halbeodeu Series Maintenance - Air bottle that hyangryeok also falls in the value field hwalgae powerful cavalry pushed in productivity as well as efficiency.
Even if the matter is resolved finances, can not be elite teutonic order is part of a stack configuration is never ritterbruder That is why. Although they are the best soldiers of the teutonic order deulyija them being his teutonic order
They can not only write this out.

Are eliminated in the dismounted Halbbruder is a jersey with their powerful assault as halbeodeu transient +6 bonus enemy enemy cavalry and some damage to the enemy generals generals guards quickly Auxilaries firepower of Prussia and Livonia Auxilaries.
When it fell to the enemy generals, until they feel they can attack instantly ritterbruder fraud explosive collapse - would cause a domino effect.

This use case is the best they can.

Sadly, they are really useless as one, except the fear aura.

Additionally, why is that and is divided into the general's bodyguard is RITTERBRUDER TEUTONIC ORDER FACTION?
Said wanted this over, and the operator does not have the teutonic order teutonic knight [ritterbruder] not a teutonic knight teutonic order deulyimyeo best soldier and knight of the order, ritterbruder is?

-SUMMARY-
1.800 / 600 TOP UPKEEP
2.NO DIFFRENT STRENGH WITH OTHER ORDER KNIGHTS
3.LATE APPEAR and lower cost-effective then other middle age-late age[1300-1500] exaptional-elite unit
4.BY 2, THEY EASILY DEAD WHEN UNDER FIRE
5.CAN'T MATCH WITH OTHER FACTION'S BEST UNIT even they got 3 upgrade armor
6.devide between general bodyguard / ritterbruder-dismounted ritterbruder

============ THE SOULTION ================

The guards have to be the teutonic order General ritterbruder must.

It is into the 'general' [produced general production when it Add this to the characteristics of ritterbruder means.
In addition to this, delete the existing reviews generals guard the teutonic order and shall be added to the spot ritterbruder (late) and dismounted ritterbruder (late) is.

Like generals, they will be replaced automatically with other reviews when opened my Plate event.
The change in the 24-turn, and discard fixed teutnoic order ritterbruder [both type] production rate. Production conditions in both the fortress
This will have the characteristics of a unique advantage teutnoic order requires a very simple and does not place additional scripts and.

On their campaigns,
would be the strongest cavalry and infantry in SS ritterbruder (LATE) version and dismounted ritterbruder (LATE) version.

Than templar guard [FOOT] powerful and so easy to beat even gothic knight [MOUNT] also
However, because their own country KNIGHT-ORDER, will be proportional to the number of national growth and size of their champion. I'll explain further about this.

MEDIVAL 2 TOTAL WAR on the property, the number is less general than the area you have to recruit additional general - except for production; additional birth or prince.
For example, will help you have a total area of 05 characters - including family members and generals] 4 If people on FACTION IMPORATION GERNAL 4 have been expressed by a number.
And so the difference is 1 / will be only one additional male family members are general recruitment.
And the right to zoom in combination TEUTNOIC ORDER only for this system.

They will have more features under the influence of their own unique game play style medival 2 total war system and the general landscape work. You can also easily see the country through the financial information window and info window on game sseojyeo actually figures in the report window, so you will not have to add the files or scripts.

get the best infantry and cavalry of the SS through ritterbruder / a dismounted ritterbruder late version order, but it's because the Knights themselves only country in general proportional to the number of holdings may be increased, as mentioned above.

I will describe the characteristics teutonic order only know everybody is on here.

As you know, the Holy See and the boatman may not have the pedigree teutonic order.

Because they have had to be better when I came up TRAITS recruit new generals report on SS. [Scripts]

But how do you have 10 and the area that you produce and dismounted ritterbruder ritterbruder recruited through without filling the three people reported that 07 people in the fortress to General?
When signing teutnoic order to see what is the probability attached to a better chance through the script, and not through the window to see if it is good enough just is rejected you.

But not in a bad way to check if there is a good trait trait directly from the general fortress there during production.
Plus there can only turn 24 once a fortress production

In addition to this, they exist only as a general guard as aforesaid.

This means that they also disappear when the General died.
It also means that the probability of exposure to combat a general character as to be a powerful unit that is higher in the teutonic order ritterbruder and dismounted ritter bruder is that they bring in the battle.

I will write more nervous the more general state hip point to having the nerve to write such fine armor items that provide + 5hip the point when the player is to play General teutonic order.

Finally, a very, very understandably have doubled the cost of production (late bodyguard) ritterbruder and dismounted ritterbruder (late bodyguard) is.
If so, as has the cost of production units 2000-full plate and the like ritterbruder (late) is. (2460cost) / (1920cost)
Course will be free because the maintenance is general guards.

This will retain the historic expansion of the teutonic order and at the same time, the power and speed of the real weaknesses unit roster.
Strategically, they will hold at most one war, no matter how far from the wire or two wire rational war is formidable.

At the same time, they will cheokhujeon / guerrilla / surprise / financial management / etc multiple wires look weak. Because it means that the state had a general character that they were mobilizing local vacancy

If the addition of the teutonic order chapter house
The only other countries ritterbruder / dismount early versions should be able to hire only will be able to hire only LATE HQ version of moloo182 the sub-mod.


Conclusion: Through this will have had the strength of their own rational and weaknesses, style of play is teutonic order.

P.S:MOLOO182 PLS MAKE RITTERBRUDER LIKE THIS >XD


-END REPORT OF CHAPTER ONE-

[ZealAndFury]

[/QUOTE]My ideas for improvement would be:

- Mounted Sergeants, outside hre and prussia AOR
- Light Swordsmen, outside hre and prussia AOR
- Spear Militia, Castle, max pool of 2 outside hre and prussia AOR (this is just so they have some more meatshields)
spear militia in castles is not a bug, as france and hre also have them

Another idea would be also allow them recruit these to keep up the pace in the later eras of full plate armour and subsequent pike & shot:

- Armats, with reduced availability
- Dismounted Armats, with reduced availability

- Reiters, just normal like other west european factions
- Musketeers, just normal like other west european factions
- Late Musketeers, just normal like other west european factions
- Late Pikemen, just normal like other west european factions

Take note that historically by 1525 the Teutonic Order State transformed into the Hereditary Duchy of Prussia and the age of chivalry was gone, so it makes sense they adopt these generic troops.[/QUOTE]

=======================
order's Auxilaries is good[of course only good at middle age ~1300] so there is no need to change that


add all additional late common unit = 200%%%%%%%% you right

not only Late Musketeers, every common late unit must include[additonal, culiver cannon/Gendarmes]
and for another, in teutonic faction one spear millta recurit slot need to change "PRUSSIAN SPEARMEN"

BECAUSE teutonic order have all prussian Auxilaries, except this one. order have not ownership like HRE/POLAND/HUNGARY[WHAT?]

--
ownership slave, poland, hre, hungary
---WHAT THE...?

also they even stronger then "order spearmen"[lol] but don't worry, high upkeep[stat_cost 1, 425, 425, 85, 65, 625, 4, 130]

[ZealAndFury]

TO : MOLOO182

http://cafe.daum.net/shogun/26h/524 - SECOND REPORT PREVIEW/REVIEW IN THIS IS TOTAL WAR[KOREA CAFE]


CAMPAGIN ADVANTGE OF TEMTONIC ORDER ROASTER AND CRUSADER STATE ROASTER

[Melooo182]

So general bodyguard ritterbruders?
that could work fine for the TO but i don't think for other factions getting them from the TO chapter houses.

I agree ritterbruders would be better with lower upkeep like other religious orders units without being able to use upkeep free slots.

The prussian spearmen is a mercenary unit, which can be recruited in most of eastern europe i think and by any faction.

Is really hard to understand everything

[k/t]

Buddy, stop screaming. I don't even want to read your posts because you come across as a top strong whiner and hole. I only wasted my time because I wanted to help Melooo.

And what's this?

"8.stupid SS team mistake of teutonic order castle techtree"

Is this a failure of Konglish or am I to understand you're calling the SS team stupid? If it's the SS team's mistake that's stupid, then leave the team out of it.

The reasons why Ritterbruder cost so much more than other order knights are balance and logic. Other factions can recruit order knights only where they get the guilds, while the TO can recruit Ritterbruder from every castle. To prevent the TO from having too much strong cavalry, the cost was increased. That was how things used to be when Point Blank established the prices. Now, in SS 6.4, you can only recruit the orders from certain settlements (and I think this also applies to the Ritterbruder). Still, when you're another faction and you recruit order knights, you're not paying their salaries or buying them supplies, so the upkeep is much lower. The military orders paid for themselves through their business interests in Europe. If you're the TO, you ARE the military order, so you have to pay salaries to everyone who received one and buy supplies for your troops.

Now calm down.

Also, you never really played with them but they're the suckiest faction?

[Melooo182]

hehe about the "not really played with them", he was quoting one of my posts in the RKOfA submod thread.
So don't blast him for that part xD, also apparently he's using google translator which i guess is not doing a great job translating the ideas with some words being transliterated making no sense in english at all :/

The reasons why Ritterbruder cost so much more than other order knights are balance and logic. Other factions can recruit order knights only where they get the guilds, while the TO can recruit Ritterbruder from every castle. To prevent the TO from having too much strong cavalry, the cost was increased. That was how things used to be when Point Blank established the prices. Now, in SS 6.4, you can only recruit the orders from certain settlements (and I think this also applies to the Ritterbruder). Still, when you're another faction and you recruit order knights, you're not paying their salaries or buying them supplies, so the upkeep is much lower. The military orders paid for themselves through their business interests in Europe. If you're the TO, you ARE the military order, so you have to pay salaries to everyone who received one and buy supplies for your troops.

that kinda makes sense, if only there were more unit slots, TO chapter houses could have their own ritterbruder unit with proper religious order lower upkeep.

Is there somewhere like a table or guidelines for RR costs? cause is kinda hard to figure out all these things.

Also, I recently played a TO campaign (M/M gracul AI) and conquered all of Lithuania in less than 10 turns while making alliances with Denmark and Poland, all battles autoresolved btw. That wasn't that bad at all, is much harder for the Crusader States IMO, taking the Fatimids in less than 10 turns wouldn't be so easy...it took me like 50 turns or so the last time.

Though from what i grasped from Zeal posts, it seems TO have problems is in later stages of the campaign when plate armour and pole arms start appearing.

[Strengelicher]

Buddy, stop screaming. I don't even want to read your posts because you come across as a top strong whiner and hole. I only wasted my time because I wanted to help Melooo.

And what's this?

"8.stupid SS team mistake of teutonic order castle techtree"

Is this a failure of Konglish or am I to understand you're calling the SS team stupid? If it's the SS team's mistake that's stupid, then leave the team out of it.

The reasons why Ritterbruder cost so much more than other order knights are balance and logic. Other factions can recruit order knights only where they get the guilds, while the TO can recruit Ritterbruder from every castle. To prevent the TO from having too much strong cavalry, the cost was increased. That was how things used to be when Point Blank established the prices. Now, in SS 6.4, you can only recruit the orders from certain settlements (and I think this also applies to the Ritterbruder). Still, when you're another faction and you recruit order knights, you're not paying their salaries or buying them supplies, so the upkeep is much lower. The military orders paid for themselves through their business interests in Europe. If you're the TO, you ARE the military order, so you have to pay salaries to everyone who received one and buy supplies for your troops.

Now calm down.

Also, you never really played with them but they're the suckiest faction?

Maybe you should run this through Google translator into Korean.

[k/t]

PB hasn't posted any cost deducing device, but I know he has some information about medieval prices.

As the Crusader States, besiege Gaza on the first turn, take it on the second, take the other three settlements there and you're done. The Fatimids' family will be destroyed or they will be so weak you'll be able to crush them in short order.