Attila - DEI combat overhaul - 0.65 (05.06.2015)

[KAM 2150]

It is included and improved

[GERMANICUS]

Byzantine phalax is out of the games timeframe and it was not "pure" macedonian style phalanx.

Dogs are out and never to come back. Besides being a BS unit, the are simply broken by CA. AI units can't target them, which leads to 40 dogs killing 1000 heavy infantrymen (since CA made units to have 0 defence while moving, hence 1 bite = 1 kill).

Amen to that brother Thanks for your wisdom and good taste to delete the second most annoying unit since TW: Rome. The first being the incendiary pigs

+REP for your efforts thus far KAM.

[krunsh]

I still haven't started a campaign with this, as I was waiting for factions I want to play to be balanced. But one thing has been troubling me. For those who did try a campaign, did you feel like having some factions still un-touched by KAM caused the game to feel un-balanced? I imagine if for example, I was to fight the franks, and they still had their stats all over the place, then it would cause an issue?

And question to Kam, when you fix a playable faction, does it also fix all of the minor factions using the same roster (I do not use any mod that unlocks them, but again, I'd expect to meet them on the battlefield.).

Thank you!

[KAM 2150]

As long as nations do not have unique units (and for example I haven't seen any Nordis or Eastern units left in the lifes after doing playable nation) then all minors are done.

In general, not yet balanced nations should not have that much awkward stats, but probably some might be weaker/stronger then they should.

Yes, I am also waiting to start campaign with my changes ; P

Thanks GERMANICUS

[KAM 2150]

Ok, I've tested the issue with Protectores Domestici being slaughtered by Sassanid infantry and as I thought there is no issue. Protectores score double or even triple more kills then any Sassanid unit. I have no idea why anyone had it other way around, probably other mods used or higher difficulty.

Edit: Now tested with germanic infnatry and Romans were even more deadly against them, 3 units of Protectores took out 4 units of Noble Germanic Swordsmen. I have no idea why your result were so odd juanplay.

[juanplay]

I have done some test 1 vs 1 battles. Here are the results:

Protectores Domestici vs Elite salamite infantry:



Protectores Domestici vs germanic nobles







Protectores Domestici vs Palatina defectors



Conclusions: I stand corrected. The protectores defeated all three units in singular combat. However in the first two cases the battles were quite matched. versus germanic nobles and salamites the protectores had an advantage of about 10-15 kills (not much given that their recruitment costs are 500 and 250 bigger respectively). Against palatina defectors the protectores performed much better.

[KAM 2150]

Odd, that does not resemble how it goes in my tests at all. Although vanilla Germanic Nobles had morale over 60 so they fought much longer then they should. Still, even those tests above prove that your previous posts were a bit exaggerated is it sounded like even low tier germanic infantry is beating badly Protectores.

In general 1v1 tests are not that much true when it comes to unit strength actually. In those tests units mostly fight to super high casualties and without any other factors.

[juanplay]

You are right about the other factors in most battles KAM, like the unit´s position (angles of attack and defense) and the possible upgrades or general´s negative effects. i apologize if the language i used before felt agressive, it was not my intention as english is not my native language.

[krunsh]

You are right about the other factors in most battles KAM, like the unit´s position (angles of attack and defense) and the possible upgrades or general´s negative effects. i apologize if the language i used before felt agressive, it was not my intention as english is not my native language.

Sorry if this information is redundant. But based on previous DeI for Rome 2, the mod was always balanced around Normal Difficulty battle.

Any chance yours is set to hard?

[KAM 2150]

You are right about the other factors in most battles KAM, like the unit´s position (angles of attack and defense) and the possible upgrades or general´s negative effects. i apologize if the language i used before felt agressive, it was not my intention as english is not my native language.

No problem buddy, I just understood your posts about the problem like Protectores are being slaughtered by almost anything (as I thought maybe it was due to some outside factors).

Edit: Ok, Frankish units rebalanced Next version with all Germanic units using nations will be on Wednesday, which means only Huns left. Looks like all nations and other stuff will be done by next week

[Hewitt212]

Would the unit size have anything to do with unbalancing?

[KAM 2150]

All units have their own unit size, hence infantry 240, ranged infantry 180, cavalry 120.

[juanplay]

I think i found a balancing issue regarding large onagers (possibly vanilla). They get too many kills when using explosive ammunition, things work like howitzers. Last battle i had with huns, two units of large onagers got about 300 kills. I dont think artillery in those times was that accurate

[KAM 2150]

I don't think artillery at those times had explossive ammo too And for sure not to that extent. Plus, isn't arty accuracy already taken down? People wrote that I overdid it and now it can't hit anything.

[ingvard1979]

Hallow. Is it reasonable playing rebalancing factions against vanilla factions, for example, romans against huns or better to wait until next week’s final release?

[Nerdwing]

The accuracy is unfortunately high versus Infantry, but in turn it'd need alot more ammo to actually be used in a siege versus towers and walls if it was turned down.

Perhaps standard ammo for all but Large Onager, which gets Flaming in addition to Standard. Explosive removed?

Not sure of any suggestion I can make for accuracy/ammo correlation though. I'd just hate to see them useless as a tower/wall killer, even though I share the disdain for them as a field-arty infantry killer

[KAM 2150]

Like I wrote, you can give it a test try, but if you want a full feeling, you should wait For example, CA gave all hunnic melee cavalry 3 points of armour, no matter if guys are wearing rags or half cataphract armour. While doing rebalance I often saw units with heavy chaing labeled as leather armour or small shields labeled as the biggest ones.


With arty the main problem is that it shares accuracy and damage both for units and buildings. So if I make it with very low accuracy, it will have problems with hitting buildings so high damage would need to come as bonus to cover it, second one would be to make them with moderate accuracy, but very low damage so they won't snipe units. There are also those penetration values, so just give me time, I will find something between Probably moderate accuracy with moderate damage and low penetration (so single stone will kill max of 3-5 guys if hit in the middle.

[Hewitt212]

All units have their own unit size, hence infantry 240, ranged infantry 180, cavalry 120.

I just meant that in those screenshots the infantry have only 180 men, which I think is vanilla ultra (may be wrong about that) so would the balance be affected by playing your mod without your ultra double unit sizes? I really don't know how this stuff works I'm only curious.
It's also a question for me personally because I'm using your mod in co-op with a friend but his pc can't handle your double unit sizes (makes me sad because I love them) so we have had to turn them down to large, which I assume is vanilla ultra.

[KAM 2150]

Yes, as long as you use my file it does not matter if you play on ultra or large unit size. Of course battles might be a bit faster with smaller units size, but that one is pretty obvious I guess ; P

[Chris P. Bacon]

Oh ya KAM explosive ammo still has vanilla accuracy, only fire and normal shots seemed to have been changed. SOOO MANY KILLS OMG MUHAHAHAHAH EXPLOSIONS AND ZOMBIE DRAGONS EVERYWHERE